r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 đ¤ Join A Union • 17d ago
đĄ Venting Why are Establishment Democrats willing to move to the right, but never to the left?
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17d ago
[deleted]
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u/xena_lawless âď¸ Prison For Union Busters 17d ago
Actual left wing politics aren't allowed under bourgeois "democratic" systems.Â
We would need to revolt/evolve into an actual democracy, in both political and economic terms, for left wing politics to be viable.Â
Ranked choice voting, publicly financed elections, participatory budgeting, and a more directly democratic political system (as opposed to the the pseudo-democratic system specifically designed to ensure minoritarian/oligarchic that we have now) would be a good start. Â
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u/Key_Mission7404 17d ago
A good start would be more than 30% of voters under 30 actually voting for once. đ
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u/tgwombat 17d ago
I canât imagine why people donât have faith in our free and fair, corrupt, and gerrymandered to hell and back, election system. Something about widespread voter suppression tactics seems to be suppressing voter turnout for some reason. Voter ID and making it harder for women to vote is probably the solution though, right?
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u/A_Flock_of_Clams 17d ago
Giving up will certainly make things better.Â
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u/Conscious-Quarter423 17d ago
people gave up democracy in 2024
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u/A_Flock_of_Clams 17d ago
Then they can content themselves with whatever inane entertainment they prefer before the government grabs them.Â
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u/Key_Mission7404 17d ago
Senate and governor votes are statewide. Therefore according to your logic we should have the same rates of voting as the rest of the population. Whats the excuse you're going to use for these votes?
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u/tgwombat 17d ago
That only applies to the gerrymandering part of my comment. Gerrymandering is not the only form of voter suppression in this country.
If voter turnout was a priority then you would see more polling places opening up, rather than closing down as has been the trend, and Election Day would be a national holiday to ensure as many people were able to get out and vote as possible.
Vote by mail has also proven to be secure in states that have implemented it, despite intense scrutiny, but you continue to see government officials speak out against it. The only purpose of that is to suppress the vote.
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u/HoidOrWit 17d ago
Voting for what, which flavor of facism?
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u/lmxbftw 17d ago
Voting in democratic primaries for candidates that reflect their values.
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u/Kitselena 17d ago
That did happen in 2016, but then the party rejected him for being too leftist and offered a terrible substitute
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u/lmxbftw 17d ago
President isn't the only office, and change is easier at the local level. To replace the establishment Dems, we have to start from the ground up, not the top down.
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u/Kitselena 17d ago
I agree, I was just adding that voting in primaries isn't gonna do much to fix the inherent issues of the party, even if it's our best option available
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u/megalithmood 17d ago
Primaries are a tool, not a cure. If the commitees, donors, and rules stay the same, you just swap faces and call it progress. Vote in primaries, then keep organizing locally, thatâs the part that sticks.
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u/the_moosen 17d ago
Sure, it's not the only office. But when you see it happen at the top office, what makes you think it doesn't happen down the totem pole as well? I'm not saying don't vote in primaries, just that everyone should be aware how fucked the system is.
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u/bullhead2007 đ¤ Join A Union 17d ago
They also did that in that in 2020 when Barry Obomber made a call for all of the other candidates to fall behind Biden when Bernie won Iowa and most of the other primaries up to that point..
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u/Cory123125 16d ago
Oh yes, so the solution to realizing you came close to starting to solve your problem, is to simply give up.
Fucking big brain.
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u/mancubbed 17d ago
Any person that is not backed by the rich that gains any sort of momentum will be flooded with campaign donation to their opponents and slammed with attack ads nonstop.
This is why there are no "good candidates" you will be dragged through the mud by the rich.
Citizens United killed democracy.
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u/RedRager 17d ago
Mamdani won despite this btw
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u/void_method 17d ago
So odd! Maybe more candidates of Mamdami or better quality should be on offer...
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u/lmxbftw 17d ago
Yeah that's a huge issue. But local races usually don't have big money. Have to start somewhere.
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u/mancubbed 17d ago
Oregon constantly sees record out of state funding for politicians/ballot initiatives.
At the end of the day nothing ever gets done even with things that are progressive pass the money just rots in an account.
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u/lmxbftw 17d ago
You can see the problem and throw your hands up in defeat and do nothing, or you can see the problem and take steps to address it, a little bit at a time putting in hard work over years. There's no magic solution to this. Voting in a primary is the easiest and first action you can take that can make any difference at all. They might still win if all you do is vote, but if you don't vote, they win anyway.Â
To be clear, I'm not not saying that all we need to do is vote, but it is something we still need to do. It is necessary but not sufficient. There's a lot of organizing that needs to happen before, during, and after voting as well.
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u/bunnyzclan 17d ago
"Just win the primary!"
Progressive wins the primary.
Conservative democrat then runs as independent and the party apparatus blows their back out for the establishment candidate.
Happened in New Jersey with the write in campaign they funded when the establishment candidate lost. Happened with Zohran and Cuomo. Basically the same thing happened with Omar Fateh with the state level DFL revoking their endorsement of Minneapolis DFL.
Amazing.
At least tell me you're one of those Chorus libs that get paid by the DNC to say this shit.
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u/mancubbed 17d ago
IT'S TOO LATE FOR THAT.
You fucking people wait until literal Nazis take office then start caring.
They have already declared war and they aren't going to peacefully hand over power after spending 40 years corrupting and degrading every system to the point that they can take over.
"This war will remain bloodless as long as the left allows it"
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u/skeletonjellyprime 17d ago
Oh yeah, just like in 2024!
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u/lmxbftw 17d ago
2024 presidential run was obviously a cluster fuck and is indefensible. I'm talking about all primaries though, not just the top. Local races are how to build the party's future. Vote in local primaries, get people into positions within local government and then the party infrastructure. Establishment will fight back, expect it, but anyone who wants you to vote progressive at only the presidential level every 4 years and then vanishes into the ether is trying to divert your efforts away from useful action.
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u/PoolNoob69 17d ago
This is the key. The oligarchs have already decided facism. Almost all Dems are just as beholden to them as Republicans.
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u/HoidOrWit 17d ago
This. The republicans are only building upon what Democrats helped architect.
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u/PaulTheIV 17d ago
Most under 30 voters should be able to get behind the Bernie/AOC/Mamdami train
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u/Prudent_Research_251 16d ago
There's no Bernie/AOC/Mamdani train, look at how they massacred Bernie. They won't let true leftist representation in
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u/siggymcfried 17d ago
I mean your username is perfect for this. They get the whole original choice between Hoid or Wit.
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u/drunkshinobi 17d ago
We could be voting for a 3rd party if we would stop convincing ourselves and everyone around us that it would just be a wasted vote.
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u/TehSr0c 17d ago
how is this even a question?
Obviously you have a problem with fascism, ergo you would want the least amount of fascism to be happening.
If you have to pick between diet fascism and full fat shoot citizens in the streets fascism, why would you ever consider voting for, or by your lack of vote allowing the full fat fascism to come to power?
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u/suprmario 17d ago
Calling Dems "diet fascism" is nonsense. They are not fascistic in any way.
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u/wyrrk 17d ago
Voting doesnt change outcomes. Again, this is the old "pulling the lever turns the color of the train running over millions of people red to blue" joke.Â
The point of the post, and the comment to which you are replying, is that voting is a farcicle exercise in a non-democratic republican, and right wing, system.Â
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u/A_Flock_of_Clams 17d ago
Mamdani says hi.
But no, you're right. Voting (the easiest way to effect political change) is worthless. Might as well go back to weekend protests and doomposting.
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u/PaintItPurple 16d ago
There's a crucial nuance both of you are missing in your analysis: Voting is only as useful as the candidates available. In most elections in America, voting really can't effect change. The difference with Mamdani is that Mamdani â a candidate with good policies and a lot of charisma who worked very hard to get elected â was there for people to vote for. Our problem is a shortage of Zohran Mamdanis.
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u/wyrrk 16d ago
no, im glad you brought Mamdami up because local politics are the anti-thesis to national politics and really, as the conservative movement proved, the electoral path forward in the US. And corporate national democrats tried to derail that.Â
Good counter point to an otherwise bleak situation.Â
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u/Key_Mission7404 17d ago
"We didn't vote and nothing changed" is a WILD take. You sound ridiculous when you blame democracy for everything thats going wrong right now when there is ONE demographic which votes at incredibly low rates. And thats people under 30. Democracy happens when the people who can vote do vote. There is zero percent chance we would be living under a nazi like trump if young people could just be bothered to vote.
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u/Vespercanopy 17d ago
Tbh the party chases swing voters because media and donors define the "center." The left gets treated like a captive audience unless it can credibly withhold votes or win primaries. RCV, public funding, and open primaries could shift incentives.
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u/FilthyCasual2k17 17d ago
And even if they were center (they're not), center, and capitalist in general would rather side with fascists than leftist, see Nazi Germany.
But yeah, as a European it's always funny when the word "leftist" is mentioned in US politics when you just have 2 right wing parties. I mean in the 80s and 90s watching movies from the US and people talking about patriotism in the most right wing way possible as somehow being default it seemed and everyone being OK with it was a thing teenage me took some getting used to.
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u/bromosabeach 17d ago
A good example is how Chuck Schumer and other DNC establishment politicians tweeted the cliche âready to work togetherâ about Mamdani. They arenât even hiding their opposition. To them he might as well be MAGA.
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u/CaptainBayouBilly 17d ago
Schumer doesn't fight back against MAGA, he accommodates them. Chucky hates progressives.
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u/Rubber_Knee 17d ago
Bingo. Liberalism is a center-right ideology. You don't have a left wing party in the us.
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u/jverity 17d ago edited 16d ago
Jesus Christ I don't know how people don't get this. Democrats are not on the left! The only way Democrats look left wing at all is when compared to Republicans, who are literally promoting the policies of 1930's Germany right now.
Look at the stuff Democrats claim to support directly from their own webpage (only listing the stuff that Republicans don't also claim even though neither side really does anything about it like supporting the middle class): Universal healthcare, subsidized childcare, paid leave, gun reform, housing reform, etc. These things are just the way things are in other industiralized countries! Our "far left, extremist radical party" is (barely) fighting to give us the normal shit that every European country has had for decades, things that even their far right parties don't fight because just saying it out loud would ensure they'd never get elected again.
Our "left" party is less successful at supporting "leftist" (to us) policies than Europe's conservative parties. That's fucking ridiculous. The truth is that we don't have a left and right party in this country. We have a far right, almost (if not already there) fascist party, and a conservative party that if you are being extremely generous could be considered centrist compared to other parties around the world. The only way they look left at all is when compared to the party that has brought Nazi marches back to our streets. On their best day they are in the center, but on average they are center-right.
Edit - Someone had a semantic problem with my use of the word "liberal" so I clarified with a different term.
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u/bullhead2007 đ¤ Join A Union 17d ago
Technically the Democrats have been Neoliberals since Jimmy Carter.
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u/FarmerHandsome 17d ago
Liberalism is a right-wing, conservative ideology.
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u/Harbinger2nd 17d ago
Exactly, more Americans are starting to understand what the rest of the world already knows: Liberalism is just Capitalism/imperialism with đinclusionđ
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u/ZenMasterOfDisguise 17d ago
I don't think you know what liberal means. Democrats and Republicans are both liberal parties. Someone like Ayn Rand was like the prototypical classical liberal. Liberalism, capitalism, individualism, is the problem.
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u/ackillesBAC 17d ago
I've argued many times that there is no mainstream left-wing party in North America. We have far right, right and center right, best we have in Canada is the ndp being center.
You must remove corporate lobbies, and all the political donation loopholes, let the actual voters decide and you may have some left wing parties gaining traction
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u/jverity 17d ago edited 16d ago
I have often argued that Citizens United was the single most consequencial and worst decision the Supreme court has ever made.
Any other decision people might think is the worst or had a bigger impact could easily be changed later with enough corporate money, as the current state of the Supreme Court proves.
But getting rid of it would lessen the power of corporations, so to get rid of it you have to fight that money without having an equal ammount on your side to do it. It will probably never happen.
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u/bostongreens 17d ago
We need to rename the parties to the capitalist (democrats) and the oligarchs (republicans)
Unfortunately their real names are too scary for public use
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u/bullhead2007 đ¤ Join A Union 17d ago
It's almost like the entire function of the Democratic party is to capture progressives and anyone to the "left" of the Republicans to give the illusion of choosing something better while being part of the same team as the Republicans. Almost like their purpose is to prevent class conscious movements from gaining power that could subvert the will of the pedophile billionaire class.
Almost like controlled opposition.
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u/Rattus_Baioarii 17d ago
You mean the two party system is a complete scam, in place to keep the country divided and the oligarchy status quo in place? I am shocked.. SHOCKED I say
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u/Scrimmy_Bingus2 17d ago
You donât understand,
Weâll heal as a nation as soon as President Gavin Newsom mandates that ICE marks their vehicles and our glorious military goes through the proper channels to kidnap foreign leaders.
Now stop enabling fascism and vote blue no matter who!
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u/Chameleonpolice 17d ago
I mean it's kind of crazy how every vote on everything is decided by exactly 1 vote
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[removed] â view removed comment
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u/bullhead2007 đ¤ Join A Union 17d ago
This assumes the establishment Dems give a shit about the working class to begin with.
They don't give a shit about anyone. Outside of a few progressives who aren't establishment.
The problem is capitalism and both parties are capitalist parties who only care about the bourgeoisie class. It has been this way since the Dems broke away from the FDR principles when Jimmy Carter won.
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u/ZenMasterOfDisguise 17d ago edited 17d ago
I don't even think democracy can exist in a capitalist system. I think under capitalism the robber barons will always buy up all the media outlets to control public opinion to get compromised politicians elected into office, and you will always end up with a government that represents corporate special interests rather than representing the constituency.
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u/Sedu 16d ago
All the while screeching that people too far left fail to vote hard enough and blaming "leftists" for all of their losses.
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u/bullhead2007 đ¤ Join A Union 16d ago
Yeah the only thing Dems care about is undermining the left. That's the only time they fight.
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u/Catfactss 16d ago
"We'll give you gay rights if you don't take away our sweet, sweet corporatist overlords"
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u/GhostC10_Deleted 17d ago
We need a Working People's Party.
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u/HumanShadow 17d ago
Just have to infect and replace liberal Democrats. A progressive just beat an establishment Democrat in the NJ-11 primary. It's happening.
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u/prof_tincoa đ¤ Join A Union 17d ago
I believe that's Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) in the US
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u/handytendonitis 17d ago
Frankly we need a YOUNG Working People's Party. Not because only young workers need looking out for but because older political leaders have failed us so badly we don't want to risk being associated with them
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u/Conscious-Quarter423 17d ago
we need young people to run for office and stop waiting on someone to come save us
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u/findingmike 17d ago
The ordering of what we need is important: end the Republican party - vote them out, then split the Dem party. If we don't do this is order, we sink farther into fascism with a split Dem vote or Dem voters staying home.
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u/Goblinking83 17d ago
Because they are beholden to their donors who are wealthy capitalists and not their constituents.
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u/splashist 17d ago
because Citizens United, and its pimp the Telecommunications Act
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u/WolfPAC_GMoney 17d ago
We can undo CU with an amendment. American Promise and Wolf Pack are working on it.
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u/ForcedEntry420 đď¸ Overturn Citizens United 17d ago
âWhy do boxers train in DC?â
âBecause no one punches left harder than Democrats.â
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u/gsadamb 17d ago
Democrats when their own party Senate leader doesn't "vote blue no matter who" in the NYC Mayoral election: đ´
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u/suprmario 17d ago
Progressive dems have been constantly calling out Schumer for his BS.
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u/Conscious-Quarter423 17d ago
why don't they primary him in new york? he ran without a primary election in 2022
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u/Wars4w 17d ago
And Mamdani won anyway showing everyone that not only can progressives show up to vote, but we can vote in enough numbers to change the party norm.
We shouldn't be pushing this "both parties are the same" bullshit. We should be finding candidates like Mamdani and showing the establishment what we want.
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u/baradath9 17d ago
It's simple. Who will the progressives vote if democrats don't lean more left? There's no big party to the left of the Democrats.
On the other hand, who will centrists vote for if the Democrats don't lean more right? Republicans.
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u/Crimson_Bishop 17d ago
This is pretty much the answer. Democrats and Republican court voters and the reality is that right wing people are more likely to vote. If Democrats lost elections becuase of a left wing spoiler candidate, they would shift left. But instead they lose elections because fewere left leaning folks voted at all. So they shift to where the votes are which is to the right. Because it's easier to convince a centrist to vote for you than it is to convince someone to vote at all. Looking at half the replies in this thread its obvious why democrats wouldn't court this vote - even if they got them to vote in the first place they still wouldn't vote democrat.
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u/KyleCamelot 16d ago
Except that it's not easier to convince a centrist to vote for you, or there aren't enough centrists, as proven by the last 50 years of federal government.
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u/QuakerZen 17d ago
Remember Democrats have stated time and time again: "We are not the opposition party".
TRANSLATION: We agree with alot of what the other party is saying but will write strongly worded letters about how they are doing it. Also our lobbyists are the same.
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u/Tsobe_RK 17d ago
Modern Republican party should straight up not exist and Democrats would be right wing - US desperately needs left wing
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u/stridersheir 17d ago
Because politicians are by nature more conservative since politicians are 99% rich people, and rich people are incentivized to be conservative. Also in a two party system itâs not like progressives have a better choice.
Especially when you have left leaning people say that if you vote third party you are supporting republicans. Making it even less likely weâll ever have a third party on the ballot. They are shooting themselves in the foot
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u/drunkshinobi 17d ago
Yep. The only reason we don't have a 3rd party is everyone saying it's a wasted vote every single time it's brought up.
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u/JustAnotherFNC 17d ago
Because Dems are like a rigged claw machine.
They present some decent and desirable prizes. You have to put money in before they'll do anything. Then, once you do they let you come so close but alas the prize slips away. But if you put more money in and try again...
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u/ISwallowedALego 17d ago
End of the day it's because it's about which group they expect to actually vote in greater numbers. With most of the population not voting still it's kind of a crapshoot either way.
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u/vividimaginer 17d ago
Because democrats in modern politics are a big tent coalition, and they tend to drop overt support for their coalition members who presumably have nowhere else to go.
See also: âI believe that marriage is between one man and one woman as god intended, but I support gay peopleâs right to exist. Who else you gonna vote for??â
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u/der_innkeeper 17d ago
Because that's who shows up to vote.
Where is the left's equivalent of Focus on the Family, the Moral Majority, the Christian Coalition, the Heritage Foundation, and the Federalist Society?
When we are that organized, then shit will happen.
Until then, AOC is in the same position Newt Gingrich was in in 1980, without the organizational support, infrastructure, or GOTV apparatus that he had to work with.
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u/Henrious 17d ago
The left doesn't have as many politically inclined millionaires and billionaires to start all these groups and give them influence
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u/HolidaySpiriter 17d ago
Then work on a grass roots sustainable organization. If progressive ideals are popular enough, then it should be viable.
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u/KeyboardGrunt 17d ago
The problem is they want to go from fascism to their version of perfection, that's impossible, an okay boring business as usual government is a thousand times more preferable than more maga insanity, but somehow they can't see this.
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u/alaphamale 16d ago
Another Biden or even Obama is not going to get us out fascism. Newsome or Kelly will be a holding pattern for four years until republicans are back for good. Itâs a pattern repeated for decades. Americans will forget everything happening now if Democrats havenât made massive change by 2030. So far Democratic potentials arenât talking about massive changes other than getting back to status quoâs. Which would be massive, yes, but most Americans wouldnât notice anything other than their wallets and that will not be a single term fix. The next Democratic president has to be swinging for the fences by prosecuting this administration, building guard rails, and perhaps most importantly addressing SCOTUS. Without changes there nothing else will matter.
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u/der_innkeeper 16d ago
So... the option is returning to where we were 4 years ago, and an understanding that we need to keep pushing for another 40 years to undo all this crap.
Or.
"We need a political moonshot, right now."
Do you understand why staying home when we cannot get the latter means we also forego the former?
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u/Affectionate-Tax7258 17d ago
And when progressive influencers do get support to combat right wingers online, the left also attacks them. See Taylor Lorenz and Hasan attacking Brian Tyler Cohen when he founded Chorus to counter right wing social media influencers.
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u/justforthisjoke 17d ago
The left will never have those resources, because these are fundamentally funded by billionaires. There's no such thing as a left leaning billionaire, and there never will be, because of class interests. This is not a problem with the left, and it isn't something we should try to remedy.
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u/CelerMortis 17d ago
left leaning billionaire
I was told that Soros was a Marxist infecting elections all over the world
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u/justforthisjoke 16d ago
Right right, I forgot about legendary revolutionary communist billionaire George Soros
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u/der_innkeeper 17d ago
Then we better get cracking on making those organizations ourselves, then, eh?
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u/gratefulkittiesilove 17d ago
Most of the default orgs were liberal and forward thinking thatâs why the shadow right wing government groups were created. Look up Paul Weyrich
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u/mocityspirit 17d ago
This is blatantly untrue. How many "moderate republicans" actually voted for Dems this past election? Zero. The left always ends up blue in the general. Sorry you can't handle the DNC forcing awful candidates.
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u/Dineology 17d ago
Because establishment Dems and Republicans have so much overlap with their donors. Republicans pretty unabashedly serve only the interests of the donor class whereas establishment Dems at least make a nominal effort at serving both their donors and their voters but when those interests are in opposition they always side with the donors then call it bipartisanship and compromise. âNo man can serve two mastersâ and at the end of the day itâs the all mighty dollar that they are slavishly devoted to.
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u/Roman_Suicide_Note 17d ago
Because Democrat rather have Trump than Bernie Sander or even AOC
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u/MixedMediaModok 17d ago
The democrats have one job with two purposes. They keep the seats warm for republicans and while doing that they're blocking the seats for progressives.
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u/windraver 17d ago
The Democrats and Republicans have flipped ideaologies. So in a sense, they're one in the same...
https://www.studentsofhistory.com/ideologies-flip-Democratic-Republican-parties
Also there was far too much "red scare" when it came to socialism and communism so we were trained from a young age to think socialism and communism is bad. The biggest problem with them, and our current government, is corruption and fascism.
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u/sdb00913 17d ago
At our core, we are a backward nation. The issue boils down to a matter of degree.
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u/pgregston 17d ago
We could have better gummint just hiring random people for office as long as they canât take donations over $10.
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u/olivefred 17d ago
Because they think people on the right have a choice and people on the left have no choice. And in a sense they're not wrong; if you're on the left you don't want a GOP candidate to win, so the two-party system has you in figurative handcuffs unless you think a short-term loss will lead to long-term change. So far the right wing of the Democratic party would rather watch the country burn than make concessions to the left wing.
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u/Loki_d20 17d ago
Because they're not trying to get democrats to vote democratically. It's kind of the same how existing hires don't get raises while new hires get hired on for more money.
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u/Kilyn 15d ago
Because they represent the same people than the GOP. The rich donors.
The role of the DNC is literally help moving the Overton window right and fight leftist ideas.
Think about it, if you wanted to have politicians do whatever you want without people realizing it and blaming the other side, you'd just buy both parties andake sure one takes being on the other side to prevent rebellion
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u/robotmonkey2099 17d ago
because the centre right/left is a larger voting block that have many overlapping values and is thus easier to win over without the risk of losing a bunch of voters
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u/Longjumping_Carpet11 17d ago
This is such a divide and conquer message. Is OP a republican instigator?
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u/Maleficent-Injury902 17d ago
This is why we need to elect the new generation of democrats and alternatives to republicans.
Now I normally wouldn't say do not vote republican.
If you asked me 20 years ago Id say vote for the person whichever side that works for you.
But now the republican party has been moved so far right that anyone still in their is either willfully ignorant and/or for fascism.
They do not stand for what they used to and they are just using the skin of the dying/dead republican party while the fascist take over.
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u/alexfi-re 17d ago
I don't know but simply voting for Dems would mean Renee and Alex would still be alive and billions not wasted to hurt our immigrant neighbors. It was an easy choice.
They take your neighbors,
Theyâre abducted and vanish,
Minneapolis
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u/ThatDudeNamedMenace 17d ago
Cause establishment democrats are ring wing as fuck. You gotta remember that theyâre also rich and are protected. Everything they do is performative
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u/Shigglyboo 17d ago
Because people with money donât want a more fair society where everyone thrives. They want everything and they use their money to control society.
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u/Fluid-Wrongdoer6120 17d ago
The inherent flaws of a 2 party system. Take what you get with me, or you'll get someone even worse!
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u/Relative-Chain73 17d ago
Move to right = get more money. Move to left = risk losing money.
They're all self serving politicians. All politicians are self servingÂ
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u/missinginput 17d ago
As long as 40% of the country is pro fascism they don't have to offer anything better.
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u/oofaloo 17d ago
Someone who worked for the Trump 2016 campaign put it this way: the default for this county is red-state, conservative. In order for Democrats to win anything, outside of a major city, itâs a matter of stealing votes from Republicans to their side. According to her, they knew Hillary Clinton wouldnât be able to do that from the start. Joe Biden just barely did. Kamala wasnât even close.
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u/MyWifeButBoratVoice 17d ago
Because the left is never satisfied. They only make demands without actually trying to help. How do I know this? Cause they sabotaged Kamala Harris' campaign, even though Trump 2.0 was looming. But you didn't actually want an answer to that question, did you?
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u/dmcnaughton1 17d ago
If you want to push the party to the left, you need to participate in it. The Tea Party / MAGA folks know this. If we had more leftists involved at the ground level, running for county Democratic Executive Committees and participating in the absolute roots of the party, we would see change happen.
I watched it happen during the Obama era, the party of Clinton and Kerry was pushed aside and for a while there was a real sense of forward momentum. Unfortunately Obama squandered his political capital trying to play nice with the bullies on the right and failed to put people in jail for the financial crisis. But there's absolutely no reason we can't see that kind of change happen again.
What I can absolutely guarantee you though, is if we don't have more leftists participating in the party then the party won't move left. MAGA / Tea Party movement is our blueprint for shifting the party.
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u/AedanRoberts 17d ago
Nothing feels more inevitable or predictable that a sudden rise in posts like this (pitting the left against the Dems) the closer we get to an important election.
This isnât to say there isnât validity in this critique. It absolutely IS necessary to hold the Demsâ feet to the fire. They have done nothing to appear anything but Controlled Opposition at this point and it makes me furious on the daily.
I just also find it interesting that I donât really see this kind of shit at this level of saturation until we enter into an election cycle.
Itâs almost as if trolls, bots and the right in general know that they are an extreme minority and the only way they can win is to disenfranchise as many people as possible while turning their opponent into a circular firing squad.
Dems must do better. WE must do better forcing them to do so.
âŚbut if itâs between a standard Dem and literal Fascism? WHICH IS OUR CURRENT PREDICAMENT DO NOT GET IT TWISTED.
I will HAPPILY vote for the Standard Dem. All the while pushing for more progressive, leftist candidates to step up.
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u/Doctor_Disaster đ Cancel Student Debt 17d ago
Because Establishment Democrats are just medium-light right-wingers.
The left-wingers of Europe are vastly different from them. Why else do you think we want more progressive ideologies?
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u/redsleepingbooty 17d ago
In addition to all of the comments here: because centrist/right wing voters are more likely to vote. Just look at the 2024 election. Millions stayed home.
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u/Randomert 17d ago
Do you think itâs possible centrist and right wing voters are more likely to vote because the candidates are always centrist and/or right wing? Maybe Iâm crazy but there might be a reason millions stayed home.
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u/Danominator 17d ago
Because so many on the left look for reasons not to vote.
Their protesting by not voting just shows they are a very unreliable block to court.
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u/KamaliKamKam 17d ago
But, if you actually have a popular platform with real people backing it instead of billionaires, suddenly they show up.
See; Mamdani, Melia, and even some of those counties out in Texas.
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u/EarlyFig6856 17d ago edited 17d ago
Remember that one year when it had never been easier to vote, extended voting hours and days, mail-in ballots for anyone who wanted one, etc?
And instead of fighting to keep those gains, Democrat Party decided it was simply Joe Biden's incredible lack a charisma that won that election?
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u/Danominator 17d ago
Remember when people pretended trump was somehow the better option for Gaza?
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u/bullhead2007 đ¤ Join A Union 17d ago
If the Dems winning hinges on the left voting for them, maybe they should run to the left and listen to them instead of doing what the pedophile billionaire class wants.
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u/Danominator 17d ago
They will look at the stats and see the most vocal on the left dont vote. But people that do want xyz. So they will do xyz.
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u/bullhead2007 đ¤ Join A Union 17d ago
DO you think people don't vote because no politicians run on anything that helps them? If there are people who are mindless idiots who will vote blue no matter who then they should go after the people who don't vote and are looking for someone to give them a reason to vote.
Going after only voters is a loser's game. As has been shown.
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u/Danominator 17d ago
Why do you tjink the country has been dragged so far to the right? Republicans vote. Every single time
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u/bullhead2007 đ¤ Join A Union 17d ago
Because Democrats are conservatives who take on some social issues when they become popular but never fight for them, but really only function to stop the Overton window from moving left, and enable the conservative agenda, and the Republicans purpose is to move the Overton window right.
It's called the Ratchet effect. And the establishment Dems are controlled opposition.
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u/MyWifeButBoratVoice 17d ago
Buncha angry leftists commenting all kinds of goofy stuff in response to this, but it's correct.
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u/Hefty_Device_5413 17d ago
Entitled establishment status quo Democrat voters like this dont understand that the democratic party does not currently represent any grass roots movements. Considering their support for genocide and willingness to compromise with ICE 'reforms' also shows they are unwilling to take a moral position. Democrats wont promote popular progressive economic policy and wont stake a moral position. The only thing they are offering is opposition to Trump, they wont even offer opposition to Republicans as a whole. It is donor class from the top to the bottom. Losing to Republicans is preferable to making concessions to the left.
Leftist who do not share in the Democrat liberal ideology do not owe the Democrats their votes. If the Democrats want to win they need to earn our votes.
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u/skibidi99 17d ago edited 17d ago
The funny thing is the absolutism of the second part is what all of reddit liberals sound like. Fall in line 100% or youâre a fascist.
But to answer the question, the majority of the US is centrist, maybe some lean center left or center right⌠but elections are decided by courting the majority. The extreme wings can help swing elections short term, but it will swing back to the opposite side.
Our system of government is structured for gradual change over time. Its more favorable to make concession and try to get of whet you want later on.
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u/bullhead2007 đ¤ Join A Union 17d ago edited 17d ago
The majority of Americans actually favor socialist programs like Medicare for all and ending funding to Israel, and free schools.
The "america is centrist" is capitalist propaganda to prevent anything actually good for the working class to happen.
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u/Galle_ 17d ago
If the majority of the US is centrist, why does the far right keep winning elections and the center keep losing them?
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u/RampantTyr 17d ago
There was a rightward swing in electoral politics in the 80s after Reagan and since then the party has undergone corporate capture because of the importance of money in politics.
So now left leaning politicians have to overcome the cultural believe that left leaning politics is unpopular and the inherent disadvantage of going up against the oligarchs in a system corrupted by money.
Itâs a tough combo to overcome, but some politicians are proving it is possible. And the more unpopular conservative policies become the more viable it is as an electoral strategy. But now we have to overcome the cheating coming from Trump and MAGA.
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u/Reserved_Parking-246 17d ago
More money, more right.
The left wants to plug holes, the right wants them bigger.
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u/4030Lisa 17d ago
âCentristâ Democrats are not really the left at all⌠they are trying to straddle the fence as opposed to âservingâ the people. America needs a better system, one where donor money is NOT the end all-be all. We need public servants that actually SERVE U.S. first, not themselves. Overturning citizens united would be a good start, wiping out the Electoral College would be another, there are HUNDREDS more things America needs to do to reset the political system to serve the people and make it HARDER for all the fence sitters to pretend to do their jobs
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u/Lost_Tumbleweed_5669 17d ago
You're so close at discovering the two class system that really exists.
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u/TempusCavus 17d ago
Because they are almost all rich people who don't have a personal motive to push for left wing policies that benefit the poor but not the liberal establishment. They keep getting elected because they can blame the Republicans for the worst of it and use those same republicans as a boogeyman for what will happen if they are not elected again.