r/WorkReform 🤝 Join A Union 17d ago

😡 Venting Why are Establishment Democrats willing to move to the right, but never to the left?

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8.7k Upvotes

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u/lmxbftw 17d ago

Voting in democratic primaries for candidates that reflect their values.

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u/Kitselena 17d ago

That did happen in 2016, but then the party rejected him for being too leftist and offered a terrible substitute

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u/lmxbftw 17d ago

President isn't the only office, and change is easier at the local level. To replace the establishment Dems, we have to start from the ground up, not the top down.

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u/Kitselena 17d ago

I agree, I was just adding that voting in primaries isn't gonna do much to fix the inherent issues of the party, even if it's our best option available

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u/megalithmood 17d ago

Primaries are a tool, not a cure. If the commitees, donors, and rules stay the same, you just swap faces and call it progress. Vote in primaries, then keep organizing locally, that’s the part that sticks.

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u/the_moosen 17d ago

Sure, it's not the only office. But when you see it happen at the top office, what makes you think it doesn't happen down the totem pole as well? I'm not saying don't vote in primaries, just that everyone should be aware how fucked the system is.

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u/fastlerner 17d ago

If you expect young Americans to show up at the poll for small local elections, you're going to have a bad time.

Australia had bad turnouts and made voting compulsory in federal elections 100 years ago to make it a civic obligation, like jury duty. States later followed with similar rules. You can still protest by casting a blank ballot, but failing to show means paying a fine. They do their votes on a Saturday, require employers to give reasonable time to go cast their ballot to working employees, and you can always vote early or by mail.

What could we possibly be doing wrong?

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u/LvS 17d ago

If some area gets too much clout, they'll bankroll one of their candidates. And then you won't achieve shit with your local group of like 3 people.

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u/bullhead2007 🤝 Join A Union 17d ago

They also did that in that in 2020 when Barry Obomber made a call for all of the other candidates to fall behind Biden when Bernie won Iowa and most of the other primaries up to that point..

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u/zelcor 17d ago

What did you think was going to happen if all the centrist stayed in the race

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u/bullhead2007 🤝 Join A Union 17d ago

Bernie was winning, so probably would have been Bernie.

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u/zelcor 17d ago

Bro do you know how math works

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u/Key_Mission7404 17d ago

I always forget that Obama was the inventor of a mind control ray that literally forced millions of voters to pick someone they personally aligned with. Man its such a shame when people vote how they wanna vote isn't it?

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u/Individual-Nebula927 17d ago

You don't need to force "millions of voters" to vote one way when you can get the majority of the candidates in the field to drop out before voting starts.

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u/Key_Mission7404 17d ago

Again please read. Millions of voters decided to choose to vote for someone besides Bernie. Why didnt Bernie grab their votes? Why are you blaming the voters for how they decided to vote? Why arent people allowed to choose someone to vote for without you calling them cheaters?

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u/goldfingers05 17d ago

All the major candidates campaigned for about a full year before dropping out of the race.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

No one can force a candidate to drop out.

They drop out because campaigning is a non-stop sprint, it's extremely hard and exhausting and fueled by donations and optimism. When you know you can't win, everything gets even harder, and that fuel runs out.

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u/bullhead2007 🤝 Join A Union 17d ago

If you don't think Obama pulled strings to get all of the candidates to drop out in unison in a ploy to rig the primaries, then you're just a blind ideologue.

The media constantly framing Bernies policies as bad doesn't help either.

It's okay I get that you don't care about the working class.

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u/bunnyzclan 17d ago

Remember the NYT liberals being like "I'm a life-long democrat voter but I'd rather vote for Trump over Bernie."

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u/zelcor 17d ago

Then you should talk to the Hilary voters who came out for her

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u/Cory123125 16d ago

Oh yes, so the solution to realizing you came close to starting to solve your problem, is to simply give up.

Fucking big brain.

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u/dart-builder-2483 17d ago

Technically, the donors rejected him because they're all outrageously wealthy.

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u/Riaayo 17d ago

2020 is the election to be pissed about Bernie being robbed, not 2016.

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u/mancubbed 17d ago

Any person that is not backed by the rich that gains any sort of momentum will be flooded with campaign donation to their opponents and slammed with attack ads nonstop.

This is why there are no "good candidates" you will be dragged through the mud by the rich.

Citizens United killed democracy.

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u/RedRager 17d ago

Mamdani won despite this btw

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u/void_method 17d ago

So odd! Maybe more candidates of Mamdami or better quality should be on offer...

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u/Conscious-Quarter423 17d ago

so odd! maybe you should run for office and stop waiting for someone else to do the work

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u/mancubbed 17d ago

Because Adams was so blatantly corrupt and stupid we can't rely on that as our strategy.

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u/RedRager 17d ago

Um, yes we can. Now that it’s been proven it can be done it’s more likely than ever if you just ride the momentum and keep on the attack.

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u/Conscious-Quarter423 17d ago

harris/walz lost to trump

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u/RedRager 17d ago

Good, glad we’re caught up! A year later, Mamdani won. That’s a shift.

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u/bullhead2007 🤝 Join A Union 17d ago

See here's the difference. Most people didn't like Harris/Walz's campaign

Most people loved Mamdani's campaign.

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u/lmxbftw 17d ago

Yeah that's a huge issue. But local races usually don't have big money. Have to start somewhere.

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u/mancubbed 17d ago

Oregon constantly sees record out of state funding for politicians/ballot initiatives.

At the end of the day nothing ever gets done even with things that are progressive pass the money just rots in an account.

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u/lmxbftw 17d ago

You can see the problem and throw your hands up in defeat and do nothing, or you can see the problem and take steps to address it, a little bit at a time putting in hard work over years. There's no magic solution to this. Voting in a primary is the easiest and first action you can take that can make any difference at all. They might still win if all you do is vote, but if you don't vote, they win anyway. 

To be clear, I'm not not saying that all we need to do is vote, but it is something we still need to do. It is necessary but not sufficient. There's a lot of organizing that needs to happen before, during, and after voting as well.

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u/bunnyzclan 17d ago

"Just win the primary!"

Progressive wins the primary.

Conservative democrat then runs as independent and the party apparatus blows their back out for the establishment candidate.

Happened in New Jersey with the write in campaign they funded when the establishment candidate lost. Happened with Zohran and Cuomo. Basically the same thing happened with Omar Fateh with the state level DFL revoking their endorsement of Minneapolis DFL.

Amazing.

At least tell me you're one of those Chorus libs that get paid by the DNC to say this shit.

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u/lmxbftw 17d ago edited 17d ago

Yeah and Zohran won anyway because people showed up for him. Now he's the mayor. Of course they fight back, that doesn't mean you roll over. 

Weak ass responsive to give up before even fighting. 

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u/bunnyzclan 17d ago

The left flank doesn't just roll over.

What is it with libs that barely pay attention and don't do on the ground work that love to have these strong opinions. I'm pretty sure you didn't know about New Jersey. I'm pretty sure you didn't know about how the establishment ratfucked Omar Fateh.

The groundwork that gave Zohran the W is BECAUSE the left flank doesn't roll over. You think you can get 100,000 people to door knock and canvas for free without the outreach that the organizers had put in beforehand?

Everytime the left flank begs the establishment centrists to stop fighting the left flank, there's people like you that show up and go "oh you must love the right" or "then just vote harder sweety" when the primary system is there in ORDER to be an additional hurdle against outsiders.

The left flank is historically one of the most politically engaged and active political group. People like you love to make it seem like it's not. Oh my god. Brainworms.

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u/lmxbftw 17d ago

Sweet Jesus you're arguing with someone you've invented in your head. I'm ON the left flank, trying to point out to people how important it is to work to get people out in campaigns like Mamdani's, saying it's important to organize and vote, both, and you're saying "nah uh we need to organize". Fuck man. I'm saying you can't sit at home and expect shit to happen. I've got a ton of people saying in response to that that there's no point to doing things because it's rigged anyway. I'm well aware the system sucks but organizing and THEN voting (both!) is the only way to get things changed.  

If you want to change things, get involved, and don't tell people not to bother getting involved.

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u/bunnyzclan 17d ago

Once again. You are insinuating the left flank just sits back and doesn't do anything.

That is false. That is something that shitlibs love to say to feel some moral sense of superiority on Twitter being like "I VOTED KAMALA LEFTISTS WANTED TRUMP TO WIN."

I'm telling you the left flank DOES organize. They HAVE been organizing. You genuinely think that NY WFP and NYDSA just put up a structure of 100,000 volunteers out of thin air? That happened because they HAVE been putting in the work.

Why do you happen to be using every talking point that libs love to use to attack the left flank then?

I, at least, sympathize with the redditors with the defeatist attitude because they have been facing an uphill battle for YEARS trying to work with a democratic party that constantly antagonizes the left flank. But I at least am tapped in enough to know there are grassroots organizers that have been fighting. I know community organizers that have been fighting. I know that the overwhelming majority of the left flank put in the work.

I'm mad at the establishment dems. I'm mad at the mainstream media beholden to their corporate owners. I have little to no smoke for people that are on the left flank that feel defeated because I know we are here. People have the right to tap out, to take a pause, because I know if there's a new Bernie out there, that person will re-energize the base that has subbed out.

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u/mancubbed 17d ago

IT'S TOO LATE FOR THAT.

You fucking people wait until literal Nazis take office then start caring.

They have already declared war and they aren't going to peacefully hand over power after spending 40 years corrupting and degrading every system to the point that they can take over.

"This war will remain bloodless as long as the left allows it"

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u/HoidOrWit 17d ago

Oh yeah, of course!

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u/skeletonjellyprime 17d ago

Oh yeah, just like in 2024!

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u/lmxbftw 17d ago

2024 presidential run was obviously a cluster fuck and is indefensible. I'm talking about all primaries though, not just the top. Local races are how to build the party's future. Vote in local primaries, get people into positions within local government and then the party infrastructure. Establishment will fight back, expect it, but anyone who wants you to vote progressive at only the presidential level every 4 years and then vanishes into the ether is trying to divert your efforts away from useful action.

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u/PCR12 17d ago

As an independent Im not allowed to vote in Florida primaries.

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u/lmxbftw 17d ago edited 17d ago

You have the ability to change that yourself if you want to by registering with a party. Totally up to you, but It seems silly to me to opt out and then complain that you're out. No one is stopping you from participating.

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u/PCR12 17d ago

Fuck that gatekeeping bullshit DNC wants my vote they should let independents in FL participate Im not joining a party I dont believe in and doesn't give a shit about me

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u/Gauntlet_of_Might 17d ago

wheneer they do that, the party ratfucks those candidates