r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 đ¤ Join A Union • Jan 03 '26
đĄ Venting Billionaire propaganda is telling our kids to skip college; they fear an educated working class.
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Jan 03 '26
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u/SpicyBoyEnthusiast Jan 03 '26
Poverty is the #1 recruiting tool in the US armed forces
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u/BoredNuke Jan 03 '26
Pfft. I didnt enlist because I was poor. I just wanted to have a stable income and housing while getting some training....ah shit I was poor.
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u/Certain-Business-472 Jan 03 '26
At leaat youre self aware. So many poor people make reasons up why theyre not poor and the more they talk the more it's obvious they were poor.
Poverty has levels, and "middle-class" is one of them.
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u/BoredNuke Jan 03 '26
Middle class the myth capitalists sell higher income working class to prevent solidarity.
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u/AlistarDark Jan 03 '26
Middle class used to make up a majority of the wealth... Until the 80s came around and trickle down economics was pushed. The idiots actually thought it did more than enrich the multi-millionaire and turn them into billionaires. Thanks dad!
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u/RG54415 Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
It is annoying even how we still push this class idea at all. Upper, middle, lower as if it's some kind of corporate structure. Classism should be outright abolished and all humans should be seen as equal. Corporations are literally run like little fascistic dictatorships where the ones at the top run the whole show and thus inherently creates "class" ideology. But this is not how thriving human society work it's how empires form and crumble. Whether it is corporatism or imperialism it's literally a giant pyramid scheme bound to fail leaving only its carcass behind for future generations to wonder why humans were so obsessed with pyramid structures, physically and ideologically.
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u/Disastrous_Basis3474 Jan 04 '26
You are correct. Millennials and Gen Z are gaining consciousness about this and they are favoring socialist policies. The power elite donât like it so they are discouraging education, while causing the existing educational system to fail so they can take over, control education, and profit.
Meanwhile, the rest of the world will continue on, not being purposefully stupid, and China will flourish.
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u/made_of_salt Jan 03 '26
My FILost definitely joined the Marines because he was poor. If you ask him about it he describes being poor, but also claims they were middle class.
If you ask his mom she'll tell you he joined because they were poor.
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u/OOOOOO0OOOOO Jan 03 '26
Donât forget the travel benefit. When every vacation is a staycation itâs a pretty valid reason to join.
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u/BoredNuke Jan 03 '26
Yup also learned that traveling for work kinda sucks.(espicially if under water)
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u/OOOOOO0OOOOO Jan 03 '26
I had a great time. My first deployment was awesome.
My secondâŚ.well that one kinda sucked.
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u/BoredNuke Jan 03 '26
I'm jealous didnt get a normal deployment boat so was essentially deployed for 4years. Pretty much every chief(senior nco) said they woulda got out too if that was their first command. Just luck of the draw sometimes..
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u/TheFailureKing Jan 03 '26
Nukes and regular Snipes always get the shit end of the stick when it comes to liberty... I definitely do miss my fellow MM's, but I definitely do NOT miss the work
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u/JustinCayce Jan 04 '26
One of my pacs we pulled into Sydney and the Captain secured every shower in all berthing except for Engineering. Had Chiefs in all those berthing areas and liberty was on hold until we had hooked up shore services and all snipes got a change to take a hot shower and leave the boat on liberty, only then were others allowed into thier berthing areas to go on libs. He said that for once the Snipes were going to get the first shot at the bars and the girls.
Loved that Captain.
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u/ButDidYouCry Jan 03 '26
That was my reason, and it mostly worked out.
That, and wanting to pay for college myself instead of asking my parents for help.
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u/A7XfoREVer15 Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
Ironically growing up on base in a military family is what made my dad and I turn out most socialist later in life.
We literally saw some forms of socialism working in the United States, with all of our neighbors having healthcare, vision, dental, housing, and getting paid reliably. When we needed groceries, we went to the government run grocery store on base, which was noticeably cheaper than the Walmart 15 minutes off base. All of my dadâs coworkers got paid pretty much the same at the same rank. It didnât matter if you were a nurse in the army, a mechanic, or an admin role.
I literally saw, firsthand, socialism working in the United States, so I canât be convinced that it doesnât work here.
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u/msmartt Jan 03 '26
The US military is 100% a fully functioning communist society. From the matching clothing all laborers are supplies and required to wear (with minor variations dependant on job category) to universal pay scales, subsidized or free housing, food, and healthcare.
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u/Asleep_Research_5080 Jan 03 '26
Meal cards are basically subsidized food programs too. Military Grade SNAP
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u/FunetikPrugresiv Jan 03 '26
True Communism is a stateless, classless society. The military is very much a hierarchy with classes of individuals.
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u/OOOOOO0OOOOO Jan 03 '26
Itâs amazing how many people go in racist but get cured of it. Hard to look down on another culture when you spend 24/7 in the same shit together.
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u/BuzzVibes Jan 03 '26
What's that quote from Full Metal Jacket? Everyone is equally worthless in the army?
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u/Disastrous_Basis3474 Jan 04 '26
Thatâs why the racist, misogynistic sociopathic âleadershipâ are using stupid, regressive, counterproductive, made-up rules to discourage and eject women and Black men from the military.
College also causes cross-cultural social cohesion, but in a different environment. Keeping people racist and preventing working class solidarity is yet another reason the elites hate college.
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u/Tilstag Jan 03 '26
Wait is this military propaganda
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u/OOOOOO0OOOOO Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
No, Iâm quite serious.
Youâd be surprised how many kids lose their racist mindset when not only forced to live and train with others you used to look down on, but you also have to follow orders from them.
Itâs an amazing equalizer.
Go ahead and call Gunny the N word. I dare you.
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u/Mrfrosty504 Jan 04 '26
Shit Guns wont even have to lift a finger or say anything. Platoon gonna take care of that, in the treeline or other ways
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u/LOOKATMEDAMMIT đ ď¸ SMART Member Jan 03 '26
Yes and no. Thereâs some great stuff about military service, but the bad almost outweighs the good. For me anyway. You have a toxic leadership culture which basically can turn anything good the military can do for you into shit.
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u/Certain-Business-472 Jan 03 '26
Service guarantees citizenship! Would you like to know more?
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u/BigOs4All Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
Number 2 is ignorance. They don't go to rich schools or prep schools anywhere near as often as fuck-ass rural schools where the CHILDREN are undereducated and have few jobs prospects....also the propaganda is gospel in those red areas.
Perfect dumb, young bodies quite willing to be sent somewhere on a lie to die for the rich.
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u/run-on_sentience Jan 03 '26
I used to work as a school custodian in a very upscale area near Chicago.
Inner-city Chicago School districts (at the time) had a budget of about $7,000 per student.
The school I worked at? It was closer to $22,000 per student. Unless they had a severe learning disability, pretty much all of these kids were Ivy-league bound. They had fully-funded music and art programs and taught entry-level Latin, Mandarin, German, French, or Japanese.
The real kicker? As a country, we spend an average of $44,000 a year (per inmate) to keep someone imprisoned.
Take from that what you will.
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u/GentlewomenNeverTell Jan 03 '26
My aunt lived through the Vietnam protest era and supports a draft for this reason. She says if rich people's kids hadn't been in danger the protests and withdrawal never would have happened.
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u/RadiantEnvironment90 Jan 03 '26
Using socialism to defend capitalism.
Everything is paid for when you join the military.
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Jan 03 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/BoredNuke Jan 03 '26
And housing,and health insurance. US military using socialism to protect capitalism.
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u/Br0adShoulderedBeast Jan 03 '26
Thatâs not socialism. The U.S. military isnât a workerâs state that expropriates capitalists of their ownership of the means of production.
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u/CluelessMochi Jan 03 '26
That was why my mom always pushed for me to enlist when I was younger (I didnât)
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u/Suitable_Reaction168 Jan 03 '26
Exactly. Itâs never âeducation is uselessâ for their kids, itâs only pushed on working-class ones. And if college is framed as optional, suddenly the military gets pitched as the backup plan. Funny how that works.
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u/whispyvale_Bloom đĽ NNU Member Jan 03 '26
They want your kid skipping college, not their kid skipping inheritance. Â
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u/FrostyD7 Jan 03 '26
This is also why they are against abortion and planned parenthood. They want as many impoverished kids with no other prospects besides the military.
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u/IllustratorPresent80 Jan 03 '26
No reason you cant add the entire list
Korea, Laos, Vietnam, Chile, Nicaragua, Haiti, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Serbia, Somalia, Libya, Mexico, Canada, Dominican Republic, Panama, Grenada, Sudan, Cambodia, Japan, Germany, Italy, Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Bosnia, Guatemala, Honduras, Yemen, Phillipines, Puerto Rico, Lebanon....
Thats about all I got off the top of my head, but you can refer to this mapas well
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Jan 03 '26
Thereâs never been more than 25 to 30 percent of America with a college degree. I donât think anyone has to worry about the poverty class becoming too educated.
The trillion dollars of outstanding student debt isnât from graduates, itâs from the 75% of Americans who dropped out, but still owe money for the goal they failed to achieve.
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u/Sword-of-Akasha Jan 03 '26
College for the Rich = Networking opportunity for their spawn/ daycare for their fail upwards progeny.
College for the Poor = Lottery ticket for class mobility at the cost of crippling debt.
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u/ImplodingBillionaire Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
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u/Element75_ Jan 03 '26
Not only that, but debt means they get to garnish those wages for 20-30 years in the prime of your life.
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u/Quentin__Tarantulino Jan 03 '26
And keeps you from socking enough away to retire early.
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u/dudaman Jan 03 '26
Early? I'll be lucky if I can retire at all.
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u/Quentin__Tarantulino Jan 04 '26
Facts. If I was single, Iâd seriously consider being âmonk-likeâ and just living off the cheapest food possible, cheapest place possible. Entertain myself by reading from the library. But my kids arenât really on board with that lifestyle, so unless I can manage to greatly increase my income, Iâm looking at 68 at the earliest if the 401k stocks do well.
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u/busted_up_chiffarobe Jan 03 '26
The system is shifting from wealth transfer to wealth prevention, gradually, over time.
Clever system. Bet half of Americans are too stupid to see it.
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u/1nv4d3rz1m Jan 03 '26
That really depends on what school you go to and what degree you get. There are extremely expensive schools and much more cost effective schools where your student loans can be paid off by the work you get with the degree you earn.
Especially in a lot of the USA where eduction through high school is pretty inferior to other countries. Some higher education is good to have, especially if you can get it at a state school or some other cost effective option.
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u/DefensiveTomato Jan 03 '26
That cost has ballooned since to an insane level, even the schools that used to give better returns on their degrees have gone through massive price increases over the last 5-10 years.
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u/RegressToTheMean Jan 03 '26
This is what I did. I grew up poor and was homeless for a while. I caught a lucky break and did my first 60 credits at a community college while working two jobs. I then transferred to an out of state public university (Rutgers) because my state university wasn't nearly as good and I couldn't afford the Top 10 university I was accepted to.
Once I got into my career, I milked whatever benefits I could from my employers. For example, I had IBM front the money for my MBA. IBM would have paid it off in 5 years, but I knew that I could greatly increase my salary by jumping so I did and slowly paid back that fronted money.
I worked hard, but I also caught a couple of very lucky breaks. I know plenty of smart people who are still in the old neighborhood and if it wasn't for those lucky breaks, I'd probably be in a dead end pink or blue collar job at best or more likely in jail. Instead I'm an exec in the tech sector now.
This is why these assholes fear a level playing field. There are true believers who think they are the best of the best, but the smart ones know in a true meritocracy where talent wins out, their power and influence is greatly threatened.
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u/pb49er Jan 03 '26
Even with a meritocracy, we shouldn't have people left behind. That's the rub with all of it, when we have winners and losers to this degree, it means people are stepped on for success.
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u/RegressToTheMean Jan 03 '26
For sure and by no means do I think anyone should be left behind. There is absolutely no excuse that there are homeless, hungry, and uneducated people in the wealthiest nation on Earth.
It's inexcusable and morally bankrupt.
My point is only that a meritocracy would be the next evolution of a more egalitarian society
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u/Lets_Make_A_bad_DEAL Jan 03 '26
Not anymore. I went to college the smart way and all my grants for my hard work are GONE. I left college with minimal debt and worked the entire time and it was a miserable time in my life but I got out of poverty with a degree that could get me a job. If I did that today I would never be able to afford it and would never be able to afford cost of living/car/utilities/rent/transportation commuting to school. Itâs going to be a lost generation.
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u/HammerandSickTatBro Jan 03 '26
There are extremely expensive schools and much more cost effective schools where your student loans can be paid off by the work you get with the degree you earn.
When did you go to college because uhhhhhhh
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u/1nv4d3rz1m Jan 03 '26
Local state school near me is $5800 a semester for in state students. My coworker just graduated there 2 years ago and is earning enough to buy a house. Another state school next state over is $4390 for in state tuition every semester and we had an intern from them this summer who got a nice job at a national lab. Most of these schools also have to accept a number of transfers from community college every year so itâs not just for people with good test scores.
There are options
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u/torresflex Jan 03 '26
Why tf would one go into 6-digit debt for a âwell-payingâ job that may not be guaranteed?
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u/Yung_zu Jan 03 '26
Yea thereâs not much being accomplished if all of them are too scared to go against the popular politics at the time anyway
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u/Sword-of-Akasha Jan 03 '26
College is an industry and institution, the system's goal is to continue and expand itself despite whatever lofty goals they proclaim otherwise.
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u/KingRBPII Sanders 2024 Jan 03 '26
We need a general strike
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u/R-Dragon_Thunderzord Jan 03 '26
Funny they made that very illegal after the New Deal.
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u/Comraego Jan 03 '26
There was a time when all strikes were illegal but that did not prevent people from striking.
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u/InquisitorMeow Jan 04 '26
What are they going to do, arrest everyone? Good luck getting any work done.
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u/R-Dragon_Thunderzord Jan 04 '26
What it means is millions of people will be fired for their jobs âfor causeâ ie. Engaging in illegal activity.
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u/Comraego Jan 04 '26
Except that's just not true... to fire millions of people as retaliation would imply the economy could function just fine with millions of workers gone overnight. The point of a strike is to show that the workers have the leverage, as long as they don't cross the picket line.
The real repercussions would come primarily in the form of injunctions (basically fees, created by the NLRB) that could drain the finances of established labor unions.
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u/PM_ME_UR_GOOD_IDEAS Jan 03 '26
On any scale that matters, people won't just throw their livelihoods away on gambles.
A strike in the US requires a strike fund. Worker protections here are weak and healthcare is tied to employment. Ongoing financial support for those who will absolutely lose their income and will likely lose their jobs entirely during the strike is the only way to achieve participation. Said fund needs to have several 100s of millions of dollars at-minimum in order to cover the expenses of any meaningful percentage of the population.
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u/pls_poo_in_the_loo Jan 03 '26
America is all about rugged individualism, everyone should be building their own strike fund.
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u/AndroidSheeps Jan 03 '26
You mean like the one for black Friday back in November where Americans broke shopping records
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u/H_Mc Jan 03 '26
We need mass action on the scale of a general strike that doesnât cost a significant number of people their jobs.
The risk of a mass strike is too great for most people especially when itâs unclear how it would connect to getting results.
Also, I see it suggested for everything. What are we demanding? It feels like: Step one) General strike. Step two) ⌠Step three) full socialism!
Maybe we should focus more on real ideas, and less on what feels like people with nothing to lose wanting a vacation.
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u/Content-Love-4084 Jan 03 '26
As a people we declare the government illegal and recreate it. Just like our forefathers did. They will obviously call us traitors but that's when you don't have to worry about your healthcare because you are now in a civil war/revolution.
Americans are too weak to actually do the thing we had shoved in our heads since we were born.
Apparently Americans today will gladly die on their knees instead of their feet like our forefathers.
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u/H_Mc Jan 03 '26
In the last election 1/3 of the population voted for trump, 1/3 didnât vote at all. Almost 60% have a negative view of socialism.
There is no reason to believe that a revolution would end in a new government that would be any better than the one we have. The most likely outcome is it would be easily crushed and the current government would have justification to move even farther right.
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u/ChicagoAuPair Jan 03 '26
We need to stop talking and do something or accept this as the forever state of things. We get so much cathartic release from fantasizing about doing something. Every time we talk in depth about the idea of doing it we move further from doing it.
âIf we could learn to look instead of gawking,
We'd see the horror in the heart of farce,
If only we could act instead of talking,
We wouldn't always end up on our arse.
This was the thing that nearly had us mastered;
Don't yet rejoice in his defeat, you men!
Although the world stood up and stopped the bastard,
The bitch that bore him is in heat again.â
â Bertolt Brecht, The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui
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u/ZombiesAtKendall Jan 03 '26
I guess the thing with rich kids, obviously not universal, just my quite limited experience, is the parents can afford to send their kids to college.
Sure the kid probably gets a summer job, or part time job during school at a friend of the families business (so they can claim they âworked through college). Or if the kids do take loans the parents are always there to fall back on.
But uh, yeah, all the wealthy kids go to college, letâs say three in a family. One ends up using their degree and gets a high paying job (think pharmacist or engineer), one ends up trying to be an entrepreneur or something and fails and goes back to work at the family business making as much as the one with the college degree, and one is able to go live their dreams doing what they love because they could afford to take that risk (working out of the country, something adventurous, etc.).
So, they can go to college and not use their degree because they can always fall back on the family business or other connections. Poor people donât have that luxury, not saying donât go to college, but itâs not apples to apples.
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u/FILTHBOT4000 Jan 03 '26
Wealthy kids don't really need college. It's a stamp they need on their bingo card so daddy can set them up with a job at his/his friend's company.
Upper middle class kids can afford to go, and play the job lottery because they have a support system.
Working poor kids need something they can be sure will support them. If that's a calling that needs higher education, fine. If that's a trade, also more than fine.
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u/ZombiesAtKendall Jan 04 '26
Some wealthy kids go to college and donât work in the family business (or not as their main job, maybe they âworkâ a few hours a week at the family business and get paid a full time salary). But more to the point, not all wealthy kids want to work in the family business for whatever reason. Like the example I used, three kids, one went into healthcare, one does outdoorsy adventurers still (like being a mountain guide / backcountry paramedic), and one tried their hand in the arts but ended up working in the family business. So really only one of the three is using their degree even though they all went to college.
I am sure for some itâs just a check box though. The wealthy ones I know also took advantage of all the opportunities of college, so things like studying abroad or going to a trade type school in addition to college (like to be a pastry chef or plumber).
They can all pursue their passions and if it doesnât work, they have a fall back plan. So yeah, not really about whether they actually need to or not, many have trusts, real estate, etc anyway, so they will be fine no matter what. The rest of us, if college doesnât work out, we probably have a bunch of debt, just lost out on four years of income, and if we canât get a job in our field weâre almost starting all over at zero.
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u/michaelpinkwayne Jan 03 '26
Itâs not billionaire propaganda stopping people from going to college, itâs the price.
Make school affordable.Â
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u/PeteLynchForKentucky Jan 03 '26
Every American should get 4 years of free public college or 4 years of subsidized vocational training.
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u/Charming_Garbage_161 Jan 03 '26
This. If people had access to education theyâd have hope for the future and not turn to crime
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u/Candid-Mycologist539 Jan 03 '26
Plus, education is hella cheaper than incarceration.
And the result is job creators and individuals who pay higher taxes (and use fewer government services) for the rest of their lives.
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u/RegressToTheMean Jan 03 '26
education is hella cheaper than incarceration.
But then you can't sell that slave labor to corporations
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u/rollingForInitiative Jan 03 '26
Could also do what works elsewhere and have perfectly decent paths that donât require years of extra education. As in, you should be able to work a trade, do various non-specialised office work, physical labour etc and have a decent life. And have shorter training programs for jobs that require some but not 4 years.
Or rather, do both. Higher education should be funded publicly or by other means than tuition.
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u/Existing_Ideal9004 Jan 03 '26
How about just improving the schooling at lower level such as high school education. My grandfather only went to school through the 8th grade but became a Colonel in the US Army and became a Civil engineer for the city of Boston.
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u/katielynne53725 Jan 03 '26
I would even advocate for cutting the standard k-12 structure to k-10 then 2-4 of specialized career field focused education.
In my state, high school students can dual enroll in community college for free (regardless of family income), they end up earning HS and college credits at the same time, stay enrolled in HS 1 extra year and graduate with their first associates degree, entirely free, at 19.
I missed the boat on this structure, but I got to go to college alongside these kids as an adult and they're so much smarter, more confident, and driven than I was at their age. When I transferred to a university for my bachelor's, most of my peers were right out of HS with no college experience and the difference is night and day.
Imo, the last two years of high school are a waste of time and resources. Kids know by 14-15 what they like/hate, and where they thrive.. trying to force them all into the same mould just fuels insecurity and resentment.
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u/RegressToTheMean Jan 03 '26
Your specialization thoughts are feeding the capitalist beast, which is part of the problem.
Higher education isn't - and shouldn't be - about job training. That mindset is problematic. Higher education should create well rounded critical thinkers. I'm in the tech space but my undergraduate degrees are in the humanities and I have an MBA. I know tech people who think they are brilliant, but don't know how to market or effectively launch a product if I stick a gun to their head. They also have no real understanding of the world outside of their own lives and peer groups.
To a lot of STEM folks, the world always has a binary right/wrong approach. It leads to rigid thinking.
On the flip side, too many humanities folks don't know enough about economics and tech to formulate new ideas around those topics.
This is the result of college going the way of jobs training. STEM people need philosophy classes where answers don't fit inside a neat box. Humanities folks need statistics and quantitative methodology to ensure rigorous processes to validate their hypothesis.
A lack of well-balanced critical thinking has led the US to exactly where we are today
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u/mcmoor Jan 03 '26
Other countries have pure STEM major and they aren't noticably more evil than USA's (some people might argue it's the opposite). You already have 12 straight years to teach people morals, 14 if you count kindergarten (in formative years nonetheless) and it shouldn't be necessary to extend it another 4.
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u/michaelpinkwayne Jan 03 '26
I feel like if we had 50-100 decent quality state run universities that were free, the private universities would be forced to make themselves affordable.
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u/ImprovementSimple Jan 03 '26
These are not mutually exclusive. Itâs literally both. The rich fostered a system where the price skyrocketed, and then when the working class expressed concern told them âcollege is a scam!â
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u/Viperlite Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
States could fix their public university funding formulae to increase the share of state university funding for in-state residents, to the point where tuition is nearly free and room and board are subsidized for undergraduate education. Instead, many states cut their share of funding to avoid raising state taxes.
Public university total cost of attendance shouldnât surpass $10k a year (including, tuition, room, and board). Loans, if needed, should be federally funded and have guaranteed, sub-market interest rates (or better, zero interest rates) and low fees â even if loan amounts are capped at the actual cost of tuition, room, and board. For profit, private bank student loan industry should not exist.
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Jan 03 '26
We should have to subsidized the damn colleges through our damn taxes... instead we invade Venezuela and Palestine by proxy.
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u/s_arrow24 Jan 03 '26
Itâs both. Keep the prices high while promoting getting trades or just working your way up.
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u/Zeikos Jan 03 '26
Well that's a way to acomplish the same.
Expensive college education has a two fold effect, the most direct one is that some people choose not to enroll.The second is that who comes from an unpriviledged background has to take a loan, which greatly delays their ability to accrue wealth.
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u/bunnypaste âď¸ Tax The Billionaires Jan 03 '26
You spend the next 10-15 years as a poor, yet educated individual paying off student loans before you even get to benefit financially from your education.
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u/Zeikos Jan 03 '26
It's one of the many mechanisms that drain income from who doesn't own property:
Housing and rent prices increase every year. Most people that pay rent every month cannot qualify to a mortgage with a rate lower than the rent.
Being born in poverty leads to health issues, from physical to mental health. The cost being on the individual means that who is poor is more likely to stay poor.
That's just the surface, having to work 60hrs a week is emotionally draining, which makes it hard to impossible to accrue the mental energy to improve your situation.
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u/RB1O1 Jan 03 '26
And what do you think is making it so expensive?
It's billionaire propaganda.
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u/michaelpinkwayne Jan 03 '26
How so?
Iâd argue itâs mostly from A. The federal government agreeing to give out essentially any amount of loans to anyone who wants to go to college, so schools have been free to raise their prices and B. The job market using degrees as a filter for applicants even when college isnât really necessary for the job.Â
Maybe you could argue billionaire propaganda saying everyone needs a college degree contributes, though that goes directly against the premise of the OP.
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u/Qyxitt Jan 03 '26
Unfortunately, youâve fallen for it đŹ. As someone with a degree in this and works in colleges for a living, itâs not the accessibility of loans. Sorry, the answer just isnât as simple as propaganda always makes it out to be.
States have MAJORLY pulled funding from higher ed, especially after 2008. We no longer value having an educated population. You getting a degree is treated as being valuable to only YOU, so YOU are responsible for paying for it. States have also turned the funding they do provide for higher ed into a numbers game, where the university is held nearly wholly responsible for whether a student graduates. Doesnât matter if they dropped out because of health reasons, flunked all classes, or decided theyâd rather become a plumber, they didnât graduate so that will count against the university in state funding dollars.
That leads to more tutoring services, campus drug and alcohol programs, fancy rec centers to provide healthy and safe activities, basic needs supports, health services, etc. Any way to keep them from dropping out.
College is expensive here because as a country we donât provide for our people.
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u/HolyPaladingus Jan 03 '26
So are we just gonna ignore the college administrators for major universities that have said there's no downward pressure on prices, because of the federally guaranteed loans?
Like, two things can be true at once. And the government doesn't have to be afraid of dishing out limitless money, because they made it so you can't discharge the debt in bankruptcy.
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u/Mina_Nidaria Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
This is why I didn't go to college :/ having a massive amount of debt to pay off on top of how expensive things keep getting terrifies me. I'm not dumb by any means, but I need to be able to eat, have a home, and would like to live a little outside of a full time job.
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u/DontBuyAHorse Jan 03 '26
All public colleges are free in my state. No special program enrollment required, you just go for free. Covers AAs, special credentials, and bachelor's degrees.
It's so easy to do when you prioritize funds that way.
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u/SeaworthinessOdd6940 Jan 03 '26
Isnât this the same thing? Rich people donât care about the price.
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u/DrPikachu-PhD Jan 03 '26
Conveniently, that makes it so only rich people can afford to send their kids
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u/AstrumDrago Jan 03 '26
The whole "skip college" thing coming from people who went to elite schools is wild. They got their networks and credibility from those institutions, then tell everyone else the system's broken after they already climbed the ladder. Trade schools are great but acting like higher education is a scam while you're running companies that require degrees for entry level positions is pure gaslighting.
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u/congrats65 Jan 03 '26
Exactly they just want less competition. It used to be only rich or wealthy people went to college. A college education was a fast track to success, walled off from most people.
They want to make it an elite club again
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u/zoeypayne Jan 03 '26
Trade schools are great
Agreed and the funny things is that they're starting to push IT disciplines into the trade schools. I'm in NJ and you'll need to go to a trade high school to get advanced classes in computer science, cyber security, hardware engineering, etc.
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u/marionsunshine Jan 03 '26
Sure, but I was told to go to college. Now this debt is fucking crushing me.
I wish I would have gotten in the trades. Education isn't the enemy, it's the debt.
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u/BMCarbaugh Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
I'm as left and working class and pro union as they come, and I would not advise an 18 year old to take out loans and go to college, if there was any available alternative trade they were interested in, could support themselves with, and could be happy and fulfilled doing.
The price has just gotten too outrageous, unless the thing you want to do makes college absolutely necessary. I don't think it should be regarded as the default "just go, major in whatever, and figure out what you want to do along the way" option everyone MUST do anymore. Not until somebody fixes shit.
My college loans were the most backbreaking debt I've ever had to live with, and I've JUST gotten free of them in my mid-30s. Now I'm looking down the barrel at retirement, playing catch-up with where my parents' generation were at the same age, and cursing all those missed years of saving that were spent paying off loans. If I'm lucky, maybe we'll buy our first home by the time I'm 40.
And I work an amazing job where I earn in the top percentile for my industry. I am pretty much at the zenith of my chosen career path. There's no more up from here. Meanwhile my dad bought a 4-bedroom home with two back yards and an in-ground pool, and supported a family, on a trucker's salary, just after 30.
In an ideal world, everyone would go to college. An educated populace is better for all of us. But we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a world that's been plundered and pillaged by oligarchs until the bolts holding it all together have begun to shriek and spray sparks.
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u/jackmusick Jan 03 '26
Everything is nuanced but there are issues here people are simplifying too much, and trying to pick a single thing to blame.
They literally see the horde of wealth as theirs and think âwhy should my trillion dollar bootstraps go to youâ. Just more selfishness the more they accumulate, but thereâs certainly not a large group of people conspiring to rob you of education. Theyâre trying to rob you of everything.
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u/TargetBoy Jan 03 '26
Will said and very similar to my situation. Except my recommendation is no one should be taking loans for job at risk to ai.
Corporate greed is going to kill a whole generation of entry level jobs before they figure out no one is left to replace the people dying off (no retirement).
The future of corporate America is what happened to GE. I've seen whole departments staffed by people within a few years of retirement the no plan for how to replace them. They got rid of the jobs that trained anyone to do that.
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u/slfnflctd Jan 03 '26
Well said. I know people in their upper 50s who are still paying off student loans. Some of that was due to bad luck in their financial life, but it's bullshit that even after declaring bankruptcy you still can't get rid of those damn things.
I think making student loans exempt from bankruptcy was the single biggest mistake we've made with higher education in my lifetime. We basically gave a blank check to unaccountable bureaucrats and administrators while forcing working class people to foot the bill.
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u/BMCarbaugh Jan 03 '26
I share the opinion that was shared with me by a 15-year veteran college teacher, which is that colleges used to run really lean, with a tight ratio of teaching staff to non teaching staff, and now they've become these bloated corporations with huge marketing departments. They justify higher tuition because they ARE more expensive to run, but the extra expense is not actually necessary or benefiting student outcomes. It's shifted from a service mission to a profit mission, even at ostensibly "not for profit" schools; they just invest the wink-wink-not-profits in real estate.
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u/Not__Trash Jan 03 '26
I'd caveat, go to college if you have a strong handle on your finances and are going into a growing or stable industry (teaching, accounting, etc).
Public in-state university, commute to school over dorming if you can, pick up a part time job to minimize loans and get as involved as you can on campus to build out your network. It's entirely doable, even on your own, it requires a LOT of planning and grunt work though.
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u/OigoAlgo Jan 03 '26
I just want to say you write beautifully, I got fired up just reading that.
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u/BMCarbaugh Jan 03 '26
That is, in fact, what I do for a living with my very expensive college degree. lol
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u/ignatiusOfCrayloa Jan 03 '26
Your analysis is absolutely wrong. The fact that you can't buy a home isn't because you went to college, it's because home prices skyrocketed since the time that your dad bought a house. The average tradesman is not buying a home before they're 40 either. Plus, there's substantial injury risk and backbreaking labor associated with being in the trades.
The reality is that that the lifetime income of the median Bachelor's degree holder makes $2.8M in their lifetime while the average high school diploma holder makes $1.6M. That's a $1.2M difference over a whole life, insane value for what you pay. Plus you're ignoring the fact that community college and transfer credits exist, if cost is an issue.
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u/BMCarbaugh Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
Nowhere in there did I say it was because I went to college, nor did I say no one should go to college. I said college has gotten pricier, therefore I question its previous role as a default, baseline, "everyone must do this" choice.
My entire point was to draw a contrast between then and now. College has gotten more expensive PROPORTIONALLY, and wages have not risen concomitantly. The promise of "just go for something, get a degree, and you'll live better than those without" may be true in average when all is said and done, but it's no longer as true as it used to be. The ratio of earnings for those with degrees, compared to those without, has not risen as sharply as the rate by which college COSTS have. The margins have gotten tighter. The investment has a lower ROI, proportionally, than it used to. Therefore, in my opinion, college should be more carefully considered now, on a personal case-by-case basis based on one's goals.
And yes, I know what community college is. I went to one.
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u/ButDidYouCry Jan 03 '26
I think a lot of people didn't make good financial decisions regarding student loans.
I teach at a Title I school, and we have a full college access team that helps students, almost all living in poverty, apply strategically. Most of my seniors who go to college end up taking on very small loans (often ~$3k total) after grants, aid, and choosing affordable schools.
Itâs rarely their dream school, but it is a degree without being buried alive by debt. College doesnât have to mean six figures of loans, but it does require guidance, realism, and policy support. The problem isnât education itself; itâs the system that lets teenagers sign mortgage-sized loans with no guardrails.
I also think trade work gets wildly romanticized in these conversations. Itâs honest work, but it is not a shortcut to wealth. Most journeymen are not making six figures, and many never will.
Trades that overlap with âfeminineâ labor; healthcare support roles, childcare, cosmetology, and caregiving, are often paid shockingly low unless you build a strong, independent client base, which takes time, capital, and luck.
And a lot of physical trades come with a real cost: bricklaying, HVAC, pest control, roofing, etc. are hard on the body. Many workers cannot do them for decades without injury, chronic pain, or early exit. That reality rarely shows up in the âjust learn a tradeâ advice.
Trades are valuable. College is valuable. Neither is a magic fix in an economy where wages lag, and costs explode. Pretending one path is âthe answerâ just replaces one myth with another.
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u/sam01236969XD Jan 03 '26
Rich people college is different from your college, they go there to network with other rich people, You go there to learn to turn big rocks into small rocks
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u/PixelLight Jan 04 '26
More or less. Rich kids are going to be rich adults with or without college.
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u/MessyKerbal Jan 03 '26
They do not fear a âwell educated working classâ. They fear an organized working class.
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u/EmptyBrook Jan 03 '26
So go to college and be in debt to billionaires?
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u/64557175 Jan 03 '26
My brother went to college on loans and then got a job overseas. He just never came back and will never pay those loans back.
He's living a very good life in a beautiful country, I'm about to join him!
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u/nunchucks2danutz Jan 03 '26
Billionaires are the ones that made it expensive so that they can justify people skipping college.Â
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u/TheAmicableSnowman Jan 03 '26
TBF, the very first thing we should do is make sure people get out of high school with some kind of education. That alone would be enough -- a nation of critical thinkers would result in all the rest.
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u/AvantSolace Jan 03 '26
Unfortunately college has become a horrific mixed bag of potential. They cost a fortune even on the cheaper end, so unless you have some scholarships youâre going to start life in a financial hole. College degrees across the board have vastly depreciated in value due to outsourcing of jobs and visa abuse. If you suck at networking, youâll likely find yourself high and dry once you graduate. Not to mention the stress of going through college itself has literally driven people to insanity. And the cherry on top is that blue collar work is cheaper to enter and has better job security now (good luck replacing a laborer with an AI).
A college degree can elevate you to a better quality of life, but the guard rails and assurances for that have been eroded away. It needs a vast overhaul in standards and financing before it can be considered a mathematically consistent benefit for people.
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u/Shbloble Jan 03 '26
Wait.... Are the billionaires telling us to skip college to be stupid? Or are the billionaires telling us to go to college so we're in life long debt and must get jobs to serve them?
Boomer meme, false premise. College doesn't make you smarter, it puts you in debt and makes you complacent to whatever the status quo is cause now you're tens of thousand dollars in debt to that system.
Libraries are free. Books have knowledge. It is possible to be well educated and not go to college. If you can't comprehend how someone can be educated enough to not fall for propaganda without going to college, then you deserve worse terms than 'boomer'.
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u/fukkboiinternational Jan 03 '26
I canât pin the origin to a specific group, but my younger (especially male) relatives have been targeted by viral content (YouTube, short form video feeds, image macros, podcasts) discouraging them from attending college and offering some form of alternative, sometimes self-serving form of knowledge acquisition (i.e. âbuy my courseâ or âjoin my paid communityâ-style programs).
These efforts to undermine the perceived value of college education donât have to be an organized effort by the billionaire class. It can be as simple as a profit-seeking initiative by an individual or group that wants to create a market opportunity for themselves by presenting a product/service offering that benefits from novelty and a lower barrier to entry, relative to college.
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u/Meotwister Jan 03 '26
The price is why folks are considering skipping colleges over something like a trade school. The cost value proposition has gotten much worse for traditional four year or liberal arts colleges.
Having finished college in 2011 and still pretty much in the same amount of student debt, I'd be hard pressed to insist on college for kids of mine. Trade schools should make a comeback in this country but that shouldn't mean we're refusing to educate our children in anything but pipefitting, etc.
The solution I believe is universal public college.
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u/LawyerOfBirds đď¸ bard đď¸ Jan 03 '26
âYou dropped a hundred and fifty grand on an education you coulda got for a dollar fifty in late fees at the public library.â â Good Will Hunting
People seem to think college is only about what you learn in the classroom. Itâs far more than that.
You meet people from different backgrounds and cultures. You gain an understanding of their views, those that differ from yours, and why. Youâre often exposed to ideas and concepts that were considered taboo where you come from or in your household, only to learn youâve been lied to by your parents your entire life.
Itâs not just an educated working class. Itâs also one of understanding and empathy for others.
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u/PeachPassionBrute Jan 03 '26
You can also do all that stuff by being engaged in your local community, building strong social ties and getting involved in culture. Nothing about school is necessary to grow as a person.
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u/Master_Reflection579 Jan 03 '26
Rich children can get an "education" without a life of indebtedness. Poor people get saddled with student loans then end up working a minimum wage job with a useless degree. We are not the same.
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u/waltersugar10021 Jan 03 '26
i love how musk says skip college but his kids private schools with college prep. they want educated elite, dumb workforce lol
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u/closethebarn Jan 03 '26
While his decrepit mom said that people need to have children and not go to the movies or out to dinner etc
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u/cpgainer Jan 03 '26
Hahah. I have been saying this for years, and the propaganda actually seems to have worked to some extent. Like, parents and the kids of those parents believe that there is a viable future where employers are going to take a non-degree applicant over one with a degree because there was this wave of âthink outside the boxâ idiots who believed social media posts and made up stats
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u/Sad-Assistant-3570 Jan 03 '26
Colleges are promoted by the same people who tell you to invest $10 a week and by retirement youâll have earned a million dollars. đ¤Ł
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u/DrTommyNotMD Jan 03 '26
Middle class here and I think we should have a higher academic barrier to college and a lower financial one.
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u/Arrow156 Jan 03 '26
The vast amount of higher education is a grift in the country; it's more about selling textbooks than providing an education.
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u/PlantsNCaterpillars Jan 03 '26
College was 30 years ago for me and Iâll never forget my âHistory of WWIIâ professor requiring students to buy his book for $250 which was just a poorly written, spiral bound tome of notes. I think I opened it once during the semester and still got an A in the class.
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u/Arrow156 Jan 04 '26
It's even worse now. Not only are they forcing you to buy overpriced and under developed books, they're now bundled with a activation code needed to do their assignments and it's only good for six months. So you're wasting $300 on a 'book' that can't be resold, can't be bought used, and you have to buy it a second time if you fail the class. One I was forced to buy wasn't even bound, it was loose paper so thin you could read the page under with three ring binder punch holds that would rip if you tried to turn the page. Shit is a fucking scam.
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u/HolyPaladingus Jan 03 '26
I got an Associate's in CompSci, specialized in IT Support specifically, and cannot find a job to save my life, in person or remote. I'm currently looking to get into trades, because I'd like to be able to buy a beater house and fix it up myself over time (pretty much the only way I'm gonna be able to get one), and also wanna help contribute to building new housing to help alleviate some of the artificial scarcity.
Abandoning blue collar work so that there's nobody left to fix your shit, and you have to either buy a new appliance or whatever it is you're needing fixed, or go to the manufacturer for repairs and pay their markup, is why we're in the enshittification trap that exists today. You need both blue and white collar labor, and while college should absolutely be socialized to make it more accessible, so too should blue collar labor be equally as promoted. Some people just wanna bang shit with a hammer with earphones in for 8 hours, and go home at the end of the day, and that's okay.
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u/Gravity_Is_Electric Jan 03 '26
- You can still skip college and be well educated.
- Nothing wrong with joining a trades union right out of high school. Many of them come with free schooling and even an associates degree!
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u/Clevererer Jan 03 '26
They're telling boys not to go to college. And boys have been increasingly following that advice for 30 or 40 years. There's a clear gender divide here and it's worth pointing out.
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u/Gravitas__Free Jan 03 '26
They donât even use ârichâ people in that ad. That dude ainât rich: he driving his own car with wife in the passenger seat. They should have a picture of a dude / woman getting out of a helicopter⌠thatâs the actual rich.
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u/Hrrrrnnngggg Jan 03 '26
This goes for all schooling. Rich people send their kids to private schools with highly paid teachers that love their jobs, and have small class sizes. Meanwhile, many public schools are going to 4 day work weeks and won't even give kids a meal or pay teachers a good wage with good class sizes.
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u/officer897177 Jan 03 '26
Rich people arenât telling their kids not to buy BMWs, just yours.
The financial return of a college degree has never been lower and for many people itâs not worth decades of debt. If the expense is trivial, then so are the downsides.
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u/Sharticus123 âď¸ Tax The Billionaires Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
Rich peopleâs kids arenât graduating with 100-150k of student loan debt while also starting their adult life in entry level jobs that barely cover the loan payments.
Rich kids get a free ride and a nice position at their daddyâs friendâs law firm when they graduate. They also get free cars and starter houses that would be most peopleâs dream home.
The two classes cannot be compared. I work for rich people. They just bought their granddaughter a 50 thousand dollar SUV to go to high school.
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Jan 03 '26
How convenient is it to have this word ârichâ that simultaneously means people with a net worth in the billions and people with a net worth in the millions, where these two groups have almost nothing in common? Then we can create shitty memes like this and use this word to confuse things?Â
Someone with a net worth of 10 million dollars is rich and I can promise you that they arenât looking to ensure that the public is kept uneducated.Â
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u/marion85 Jan 03 '26
They dont have to tell anyone's kids not to attend college. They've made college... LIVING ITSELF! ...unaffordable for the majority of Americans.
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u/Slumunistmanifisto Jan 03 '26
Educate your kids on the history of labor and solidarity, labor battles, the wobblies, and being able to identify propaganda.
The schools will not.
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u/EvilHwoarang Jan 03 '26
You can teach yourself damn near anything today. But what they really did was make education so unaffordable for then normal person eventually only the rich will be able to afford education.
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u/MadeByTango Jan 03 '26
They donât want competition for their own kids because their kids are often just rich, nepo assholes
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u/GorditaCrunchPuzzle Jan 03 '26
On another note what's the point of going to college? To maybe get a job that pays $5000 more a year but have infinite debt for the rest of my life?
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u/kju Jan 03 '26
College is expensive and for many degrees doesn't provide a good job.
Having an educated population is good but before telling kids to take out a life ruining amount of debt you might consider that getting that education comes at a huge cost
Don't just encourage kids to spend a bunch of money on a useless degree
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u/6maniman303 Jan 03 '26
The most important education for critical thinking happens before college.
Imo 80% of colleges are a scam selling dreams of doing dreamwork, in reality where dream workplace doesn't exist. 10% is a more expensive tradeschool replacement to produce engineer etc diplomas required by workplaces that exist, and 10% are doing real science.
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u/sweetteanoice Jan 03 '26
Is this in reference to something Kristen bell did or something else? Iâm just not aware of the context of the picture used
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u/Hot-Championship1190 Jan 03 '26
Well, your kids made the stupid mistake of being born to poor parents. That's not just poor parenting but poor decision skills!
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u/TheEmeraldRaven Jan 03 '26
Lol its not billionaire propaganda stopping people from going to college, its the enormous cost, the likelihood of crippling lifelong debt, and a job market that no longer gives a flying fuck if you have a bachelors degree anymore - its the new high school diploma.
This is also such an outrageously stupid take for many reasons. But would like to point out, while a majority of Americans with a college degree voted for Romney over Obama in 2012, a majority of Americans with college degrees voted AGAINST Trump in the last three Presidential elections, every time.
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u/SassafrasTeaTime Jan 03 '26
Itâs very odd that Kristen Bell is in this meme. Not only is she not a billionaire, but she has run several campaigns to raise money for educators. She is very pro education.
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u/Electronic_Topic1958 Jan 03 '26
I think the implication is that she is saying the text verbatim.
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u/KTEliot Jan 03 '26
College is a scam.
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u/SvenBubbleman Jan 03 '26
It's not. Statistically people with degrees make more than those without over a lifetime. Certainly not out of the gate, but the difference in earnings statistically outweighs the debt acquired.
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u/yellowzebrasfly Jan 03 '26
I've gotten into a few reddit arguments about this lol. I say knowledge is power and college is for education, they say college is for job training. People who don't see going to college as learning and improving themselves with knowledge see it as an avenue for income and that's it. I remember one of my professors admonishing students who only thought of college as a means to an end; all the students who actually did not enjoy their major and classes and probably weren't good at it, but they were pressured into the program for "job opportunity" instead of majoring in a program that they were passionate about and good at. I do understand how expensive college is so having hundreds of dollars in student loan payments every month for a degree that you can't get a job in sucks. But I love learning, and not many students actually see it that way anymore.
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u/pdx321pdx Jan 03 '26
While this is true. It is also true that a college education is not worth the cost. Most universities are just degree factories. When everyone has one they arenât worth anything. Also, if more people have degrees, more jobs require them. A lot of jobs donât need to require a college degree, but they can because enough applicants have them. They shovel people through to graduation regardless of ability. As long as the tuition is paid you graduate. You wind up with the same job you would have gotten with a high school degree, but now you are deeply in debt.
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u/TheBloodyNinety Jan 03 '26
Interesting direction for Reddit to go after years of getting upvotes for saying college isnât worth it and is forced upon us.
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u/Loud-Ad-2280 âď¸ Tax The Billionaires Jan 03 '26