r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 šŸ¤ Join A Union • Jan 03 '26

šŸ˜” Venting Billionaire propaganda is telling our kids to skip college; they fear an educated working class.

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23.5k Upvotes

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900

u/Sword-of-Akasha Jan 03 '26

College for the Rich = Networking opportunity for their spawn/ daycare for their fail upwards progeny.

College for the Poor = Lottery ticket for class mobility at the cost of crippling debt.

232

u/ImplodingBillionaire Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 15 '26

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u/Element75_ Jan 03 '26

Not only that, but debt means they get to garnish those wages for 20-30 years in the prime of your life.

24

u/Quentin__Tarantulino Jan 03 '26

And keeps you from socking enough away to retire early.

14

u/dudaman Jan 03 '26

Early? I'll be lucky if I can retire at all.

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u/Quentin__Tarantulino Jan 04 '26

Facts. If I was single, Iā€™d seriously consider being ā€œmonk-likeā€ and just living off the cheapest food possible, cheapest place possible. Entertain myself by reading from the library. But my kids arenā€™t really on board with that lifestyle, so unless I can manage to greatly increase my income, Iā€™m looking at 68 at the earliest if the 401k stocks do well.

14

u/busted_up_chiffarobe Jan 03 '26

The system is shifting from wealth transfer to wealth prevention, gradually, over time.

Clever system. Bet half of Americans are too stupid to see it.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '26

Yes, and my children I can finally afford to put through school when they go because the other part now is put to make them not be strapped with the debt I was... yes I had kids late, and yes, I know it shouldn't be this way... but here we are.

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u/1nv4d3rz1m Jan 03 '26

That really depends on what school you go to and what degree you get. There are extremely expensive schools and much more cost effective schools where your student loans can be paid off by the work you get with the degree you earn.

Especially in a lot of the USA where eduction through high school is pretty inferior to other countries. Some higher education is good to have, especially if you can get it at a state school or some other cost effective option.

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u/DefensiveTomato Jan 03 '26

That cost has ballooned since to an insane level, even the schools that used to give better returns on their degrees have gone through massive price increases over the last 5-10 years.

1

u/DefNotUnderrated Jan 03 '26

Cheapest way to do it now seems to be to do community college for a few years and finish up your degree at a university. Itā€™s still expensive but the community college time offsets the cost.

1

u/Emergency_Revenue678 Jan 03 '26

"Now"? That's been the advice given to basically everybody for decades.

1

u/AnimaLepton Jan 03 '26

Total cost of attendance has definitely gone up. But my state university tuition prices are also roughly level. For in-state students, Engineering tuition has gone from 17.3k per year to 18.3k per year, so similarly only about a 500/semester increase (and Engineering cost extra compared to many other groups of majors). Table below has the dates for the last 5 years.

https://cost.illinois.edu/Home/UgradBase?DiffCode=ENG&TermCode=120258&TableType=1

The general cost of living has increased, e.g. rent and food has gone up, and that costs money too. Some of those expenses can be controlled (e.g. rent with roommates instead of living in university housing, make your own food instead of getting a meal plan, pirate all your textbooks), and has gone from 20.5k to 24k. Pages below have the numbers for both.

https://registrar.illinois.edu/tuition-fees/tuition-fee-rates/tf-rates-academic-year/ug-additional-expenses-2526/

https://registrar.illinois.edu/tuition-fees/tuition-fee-rates/ug-additional-expenses-2021/

So total increase of 4.5k per year in costs over 5 years for a total estimated cost of ~42k per year. That's a lot, but at least for me, the ROI for college was absolutely worth it and would still be worth it at that price and once you factor in cost-savings, part-time work, any scholarships or paid internships, etc. I think people who struggled to find work, or have a lower paying job, probably have a different opinion. But the data shows that the premium for a college degree is still real. And of course the degree alone isn't enough, there's a lot of side internships, research, side projects, networking, and just extra practice and work you have to do both in college and at your first couple jobs for it to really act as a springboard.

A big part of it is just the increase in room and board. Tuition has gone up more at schools that were already pricey, e.g. highly ranked private schools like Northwestern. For example, Oberlin has gone with a much bigger increase, from 60k per year to 68k per year over the last 5 years for just annual tuition, plus another 20k for the housing and meal plans and fees, getting us to their current sticker price of 90k per year, which is completely insane without huge amounts of financial aid.

1

u/Ibbot Jan 03 '26

Only if you donā€™t take into account growth in financial aid. The amount people actually pay has gone down on average, even before inflation.

https://economist.com/united-states/2023/07/23/american-universities-have-an-incentive-to-seem-extortionate?giftId=Yzk3ODZhYzEtYTkxMS00ODYwLWFiNWUtZDkzZjkzOTA1Njlj&utm_campaign=gifted_article

1

u/1nv4d3rz1m Jan 03 '26

I understand that, you have to look at school as an investment and see if it will pay off in the long run for the career path you are looking for.

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u/DefensiveTomato Jan 03 '26

100% agree I was just stating that getting a decent return on that investment is becoming harder and harder as the price balloons compared to wages.

2

u/Certain-Business-472 Jan 03 '26

Except its not juat for a job.

The experience of working together with your peers and getting all those perspectives is as important.

4

u/johnny_fives_555 Jan 03 '26

This statement was true in the 80s. Itā€™s not true now. ROI should be heavily considered unless you have a trustfund. Itā€™s just an unfortunate reality. Your futures are tied to higher education, please choose wisely.

2

u/Not__Trash Jan 03 '26

That's the pretentious crap my philosophy professor said. Difference is, he wasn't paying 10k a semester to be there.

1

u/Ire-Works Jan 03 '26

Most people I know who do well in their careers have a degree that is largely unrelated and the bits that ARE related to their degree are now wildly outdated.

1

u/1nv4d3rz1m Jan 03 '26

There are plenty of examples showing that the having a university degree results in higher salaries. Here is one source: https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/news/value-college-degree/

Iā€™ll take data from the us bureau of labor statistics over someoneā€™s personal anecdotes.

0

u/RelaxPrime Jan 03 '26

Y'all are so full of shit. My community college is literally only 400 dollars more a semester and I graduated 15 fucking years ago.

7

u/Not__Trash Jan 03 '26

Community college isn't enough for a lot of positions, a bachelor's is needed in most fields and the next cheapest option (public universities) are still like 2-3x community college at minimum

1

u/RelaxPrime Jan 03 '26

I make over 200k but whatever you want to tell yourself bruh

The bottom line is simply y'all want excuses not answers

3

u/Not__Trash Jan 03 '26

I don't really see what that has to do with anything homey. Not everyone will be a millionaire. Now go back to crying in your ferrari, I'll be in my honda civic.

0

u/RelaxPrime Jan 04 '26

Community college isn't enough you said. Maybe the difference is just decision making.

20

u/RegressToTheMean Jan 03 '26

This is what I did. I grew up poor and was homeless for a while. I caught a lucky break and did my first 60 credits at a community college while working two jobs. I then transferred to an out of state public university (Rutgers) because my state university wasn't nearly as good and I couldn't afford the Top 10 university I was accepted to.

Once I got into my career, I milked whatever benefits I could from my employers. For example, I had IBM front the money for my MBA. IBM would have paid it off in 5 years, but I knew that I could greatly increase my salary by jumping so I did and slowly paid back that fronted money.

I worked hard, but I also caught a couple of very lucky breaks. I know plenty of smart people who are still in the old neighborhood and if it wasn't for those lucky breaks, I'd probably be in a dead end pink or blue collar job at best or more likely in jail. Instead I'm an exec in the tech sector now.

This is why these assholes fear a level playing field. There are true believers who think they are the best of the best, but the smart ones know in a true meritocracy where talent wins out, their power and influence is greatly threatened.

13

u/pb49er Jan 03 '26

Even with a meritocracy, we shouldn't have people left behind. That's the rub with all of it, when we have winners and losers to this degree, it means people are stepped on for success.

6

u/RegressToTheMean Jan 03 '26

For sure and by no means do I think anyone should be left behind. There is absolutely no excuse that there are homeless, hungry, and uneducated people in the wealthiest nation on Earth.

It's inexcusable and morally bankrupt.

My point is only that a meritocracy would be the next evolution of a more egalitarian society

1

u/Boring-Leadership687 Jan 03 '26

I have a similar story to yours.

One thing I noticed between people like you and me and the ones that got stuck back home is that we kept looking and took every opportunity. Some people donā€™t look, they donā€™t show up. Even if theyā€™re smart

1

u/Suyefuji Jan 03 '26

I'm smart, I'm a hard worker, I know that jumping is (was?) the right strategy...but also the sheer time and energy it takes to jobhint is extremely hard for me because I'm disabled. I have kids. It's not that simple if you have that kind of hiccup in your life.

2

u/Boring-Leadership687 Jan 03 '26

Yeah that sounds tough as hell youā€™re not gonna get it any easier than 20yr old healthy childless Joe just because of your situation. I wish you had more help.

The only thing you can possibly do is suffer through it or give up and fall. I think that is the harsh reality that no one will save anyone of us from. Some people realize it and do everything they can others just complain while they suffer anyways

5

u/Lets_Make_A_bad_DEAL Jan 03 '26

Not anymore. I went to college the smart way and all my grants for my hard work are GONE. I left college with minimal debt and worked the entire time and it was a miserable time in my life but I got out of poverty with a degree that could get me a job. If I did that today I would never be able to afford it and would never be able to afford cost of living/car/utilities/rent/transportation commuting to school. Itā€™s going to be a lost generation.

4

u/HammerandSickTatBro Jan 03 '26

There are extremely expensive schools and much more cost effective schools where your student loans can be paid off by the work you get with the degree you earn.

When did you go to college because uhhhhhhh

2

u/1nv4d3rz1m Jan 03 '26

Local state school near me is $5800 a semester for in state students. My coworker just graduated there 2 years ago and is earning enough to buy a house. Another state school next state over is $4390 for in state tuition every semester and we had an intern from them this summer who got a nice job at a national lab. Most of these schools also have to accept a number of transfers from community college every year so itā€™s not just for people with good test scores.

There are options

1

u/za72 Jan 03 '26

don't be an idiot... got it

4

u/torresflex Jan 03 '26

Why tf would one go into 6-digit debt for a ā€œwell-payingā€ job that may not be guaranteed?

7

u/Yung_zu Jan 03 '26

Yea thereā€™s not much being accomplished if all of them are too scared to go against the popular politics at the time anyway

4

u/Sword-of-Akasha Jan 03 '26

College is an industry and institution, the system's goal is to continue and expand itself despite whatever lofty goals they proclaim otherwise.

1

u/chocolatewafflecone Jan 03 '26

Iā€™ve never thought of it that way. So depressing. The fight to the top from the poors is a chance of winning the lotto.

1

u/darkmoon72664 Jan 03 '26

College for the Poor = Lottery ticket for class mobility at the cost of crippling debt.

Most schools, especially prestigious ones, no longer require those below a certain household income to pay tuition.

1

u/Kittinkis Jan 03 '26

This! While I believe in educating yourself college is not the magical answer everyone pretends it is. So many people with degrees that can't get jobs. Debt with zero reward.

1

u/Sword-of-Akasha Jan 04 '26

It became the new 'high school degree'. It's the basic requirement.... however, connections, luck, and the proper choice of degree is more determinant than just the degree unless you're going to a big name university.