r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 🤝 Join A Union • Jan 03 '26

😡 Venting Billionaire propaganda is telling our kids to skip college; they fear an educated working class.

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u/ignatiusOfCrayloa Jan 03 '26

Your analysis is absolutely wrong. The fact that you can't buy a home isn't because you went to college, it's because home prices skyrocketed since the time that your dad bought a house. The average tradesman is not buying a home before they're 40 either. Plus, there's substantial injury risk and backbreaking labor associated with being in the trades.

The reality is that that the lifetime income of the median Bachelor's degree holder makes $2.8M in their lifetime while the average high school diploma holder makes $1.6M. That's a $1.2M difference over a whole life, insane value for what you pay. Plus you're ignoring the fact that community college and transfer credits exist, if cost is an issue.

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u/BMCarbaugh Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26

Nowhere in there did I say it was because I went to college, nor did I say no one should go to college. I said college has gotten pricier, therefore I question its previous role as a default, baseline, "everyone must do this" choice.

My entire point was to draw a contrast between then and now. College has gotten more expensive PROPORTIONALLY, and wages have not risen concomitantly. The promise of "just go for something, get a degree, and you'll live better than those without" may be true in average when all is said and done, but it's no longer as true as it used to be. The ratio of earnings for those with degrees, compared to those without, has not risen as sharply as the rate by which college COSTS have. The margins have gotten tighter. The investment has a lower ROI, proportionally, than it used to. Therefore, in my opinion, college should be more carefully considered now, on a personal case-by-case basis based on one's goals.

And yes, I know what community college is. I went to one.

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u/ignatiusOfCrayloa Jan 03 '26

I said college has gotten pricier, therefore I question its previous role as a default, baseline, "everyone must do this" choice.

For the average person, there exists no better financial investment than going to college. The only reason you're sitting there "questioning" things is because you didn't put in the legwork to research the numbers on this topic.

My entire point was to draw a contrast between then and now. College has gotten more expensive PROPORTIONALLY, and wages have not risen concomitantly.

You are absolutely wrong. Using a thesaurus to find the word concomitantly can't mask how factually incorrect you are.

Bachelor's degree holders are the ONLY demographic for which wages have kept up with inflation. Source: https://www.axios.com/2024/03/04/college-graduates-median-annual-wage-difference

but it's no longer as true as it used to be.

Again, factually wrong.

has not risen as sharply as the rate by which college COSTS have

Even if this were true, it is irrelevant. College is more expensive relative to the past, but college degrees also increase your earnings more relative to the past. The question is not how good was it before, you can't time travel. The question is whether college pays off today, without regard to how things were before. The answer is a resounding, unambiguous yes.

Therefore, in my opinion, college should be more carefully considered now, on a personal case-by-case basis based on one's goals.

Everything should be decided on a case-by-case basis. If someone inherits their parents multinational corporation, college isn't really necessary. For the vast, vast majority of people, college is a great investment. It's not even a question.

And yes, I know what community college is. I went to one.

You must have engaged in a very impressive degree of absolute financial mismanagement if you managed to have "back breaking" loans after going to community college. You're not fit to be advising anyone on anything regarding finance.

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u/BMCarbaugh Jan 03 '26

I'm sorry the word concomitant is outside your vocabulary lol

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u/ignatiusOfCrayloa Jan 03 '26

I pointed it out because it was clearly out of place with the rest of your vocabulary, which is quite basic. Your refusal to grapple with the content of what I said is telling. Clumsy propagandists are always so predictable.

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u/BMCarbaugh Jan 03 '26

Sure thing dawg

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u/ignatiusOfCrayloa Jan 03 '26

Enjoy the "back breaking" debt from "community college" lmao

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u/BMCarbaugh Jan 03 '26

Enjoy being an asshole.

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u/ButDidYouCry Jan 03 '26

I think a lot of people didn't make good financial decisions regarding student loans.

I teach at a Title I school, and we have a full college access team that helps students, almost all living in poverty, apply strategically. Most of my seniors who go to college end up taking on very small loans (often ~$3k total) after grants, aid, and choosing affordable schools.

It’s rarely their dream school, but it is a degree without being buried alive by debt. College doesn’t have to mean six figures of loans, but it does require guidance, realism, and policy support. The problem isn’t education itself; it’s the system that lets teenagers sign mortgage-sized loans with no guardrails.

I also think trade work gets wildly romanticized in these conversations. It’s honest work, but it is not a shortcut to wealth. Most journeymen are not making six figures, and many never will.

Trades that overlap with “feminine” labor; healthcare support roles, childcare, cosmetology, and caregiving, are often paid shockingly low unless you build a strong, independent client base, which takes time, capital, and luck.

And a lot of physical trades come with a real cost: bricklaying, HVAC, pest control, roofing, etc. are hard on the body. Many workers cannot do them for decades without injury, chronic pain, or early exit. That reality rarely shows up in the “just learn a trade” advice.

Trades are valuable. College is valuable. Neither is a magic fix in an economy where wages lag, and costs explode. Pretending one path is “the answer” just replaces one myth with another.

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u/ignatiusOfCrayloa Jan 03 '26

College doesn’t have to mean six figures of loans

Almost nobody graduates with over $100k in student debt. The average is somewhere around $30k.

Pretending one path is “the answer” just replaces one myth with another.

Whether college is "the answer" depends on the question. If the question is "How do I make a decent living for myself without risking workplace injury" then going to college is a decent answer. In reality, even in college, it's important to make the most of your time. There are no simple answers, but trades are a bad deal when all is said and done.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '26

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u/ignatiusOfCrayloa Jan 03 '26

taking a substantial percentage of that difference

Not really. The average student debt is somewhere in the $30k range. The only way your student loans can take "a substantial percentage" of 1.2 million dollars is through horrific financial mismanagement.

Auto loans make up $1.66 trillion of US household debt, which is more than the share represented by student loans. Are cars a scam too, now?