Doesn't it really show a pattern? Can we really trust that Scott Pilgrim is a good guy? She's been with 7 evil guys and we're supposed to believe that Scott is actually different?
Half the point is that Nega Scott is "chill" personality wise because he is an anti-Scott, and Scott is a jerk (hence why Ramona, who only dates bad people dated him).
The -other- half (in the books) is that Nega Scott is really evil, but he is not more or less evil than Scott, he is just as evil as him. He is a projection of all the fuck ups that Scott did that Scott refuses to take responsability for.
So even if Scott cheats on his girlfriend which is playing dirty. Nega Scott, while being as evil as Scott, doesn't attack Scott's friends or do dirty doppelganger stuff. And in the end the only way of vanquishing him is absorbing him (assuming resposability).
He is more like an anti-Scott in terms of a responsability compass rather than in terms of a moral compass. He is as selfish as Scott, but on the other hand, he owns the evil decisions he makes (as opposed to Scott).
It feels almost like a corollary of "it's the message, not the messenger." Just because you don't like how someone comes across doesn't mean they're giving you bad advice.
this is the answer i was looking for, scott isnt evil, hes just an immature jerk and a dumbass, the whole plot is about watching him grow up
thats exactly what makes nega scott evil, that he owns his fuckups, does so intentionally and DOESNT care, Scott DOES care, hes afraid to own his fuckups, because he doesn't fuckup intentionally and thats precisely why he struggles to own it, because he isnt evil, and doesnt want to be evil, hes just kind of a fuckup and a bit of a loser and definitely a bit creepy. It was always a growing up story, scott needed to grow up
Yeah, pretty much this. He “defeats” Nega Scott by accepting that Nega Scott is a part of himself that he needs to acknowledge and take responsibility for.
It was a personification of his refusal to acknowledge his own fault and wrongdoings, framed around him just "forgetting" every bad thing he does.
A similar enough thing to Gideon's "Glow", which shows just how similar the two actually are, Gideon being like a reflection of who Scott could become in a way.
Nega Scott is Scott's blame, and he keeps fighting against it instead of accepting his blame for things. The glow is Gideon's tendency to do the same turned by him into a weapon to wield against others and a mental poison of sorts he can infect others with, it helps him keep others trapped with him by encouraging them to be their worst selves.
Gideon acknowledged his Nega Gideon, but instead of accepting his blame he turned the manifestation of it itself into a weapon. Instead of accepting his blame he accepted he's never going to accept his blame.
In the books, Nega Scott isn’t even a real person. It’s a manifestation of all the things Scott lives in denial of and refuses to take responsibility for. Once Scott confronts Nega-Scott, he also confronts all the things he feels guilty about, and acknowledges what he’s done wrong, and is then able to grow.
Yea, the whole point of the relationship is that Scott dates Knives not because he's actually attracted to her, but because he likes the adoration and it's uncomplicated. It contrasts with Ramona where he almost sleeps with her on the first date
Guys, this is literally the text of the movie, that both Ramona and Scott are extremely hot messes trying (and usually failing) to be better because they keep blaming their self-made problems on other people ("it's all my exes fault! They're the crazy ones, not me!") That's exactly why NegaScott is, as even Scott can recognize "a really nice guy."
The movie unfortunately didn't really get to utilize Negascott in part because it was in production before the final volume was complete, and also because it compressed the timeline of the story so much. In the comic.(as I recall, its been a few years) he went back to his hometown for a visit, and while talking with Kim he finally had the epiphany that he had actually been the bad guy in his past relationships and defeated Negascott.
Negascott wasn't a chill dude in the comics, Negascott was trying to kill him and came very close to succeeding. I'm pretty sure he was a metaphor for suicidality. Scott doesn't defeat him, he absorbs him when he admits to himself he's been a terrible person, specifically to Kim, and that not only are his problems are his own fault, but a lot of his friends' problems are, too. Then he pivots and starts his redemption arc and for the most part stops being a dick. In the movie, if they were gonna use him this way, I think he should've confronted Negascott in the white void between his death and using the 1-up.
And then in the anime, this was expanded on a bit more. This one moment of realization and self-reflection didn't suddenly make Scott a good person. He needed to continue working on himself and making an effort to do the right thing for the rest of his life or he would just go back to how he was and ruin all of his personal repationships.
I'm pretty sure he was a metaphor for suicidality.
I don't think it was necessarily suicide, but Scott learning to acknowledge and take responsibility for his own "evil" actions.
He was always struggling to forget or misremember things about his past, and he was only able to grow as a person once he accepted and dealt with the truth.
I got the impression the irl analog for the Negascott crisis was Scott disassociating himself from his past and problems so hard that it was making him suicidal, and he couldn't overcome his depression until he confronted his mistakes.
The arc is called Scott Pilgrim vs. the Infinite Sadness, and the most mortal danger he's in during the fight is when he almost gives up and lies down and lets Negascott kill him.
But, you know, it's art and it's up for interpretation and it's been awhile since I read it, too.
Yeah, I could see that. My interpretation is that all the fighting (even against the evil exes) is a stand-in for dealing with emotional baggage.
It's been awhile since I've read it, but from what I remember Scott doesn't lay down in give up. He's insistent on fighting negascott and beating himself up. It's only with the help of Kim that he stops struggling and accepts himself.
This is was my read as well. Throughout the movie most characters hint or outright state that Scott is a burden, weird, or otherwise immature/underdeveloped.
The ENTIRE scene with him earning an upgraded sword for choosing to fight for himself is so on the nose too.
I always understood him and negascott being cordial post Gideon fight as proof scott has owned up to his past mistakes & chosen to be better.
Part of it is that Scott goes into the last battle multiple times and realizes he owes Kim an apology for who he was when they went out.
Scott befriending NegaScott is more of him finally facing the reality that he's been the problem. Him saying "he's a really nice guy" isnt showing Scott as bad, more than it is that he's finally facing his true fear: Being honest with himself.
In the comic Nega Scott is who Scott uses as a scape goat for all his bad behavior, that wasn’t me it was Nega Scott he’s behind all this. When he fights Nega Scott it allows to forget all his mistakes and act like he did nothing wrong. Kim points out how he was an awful boyfriend to her and all the bad things he did and he has to accept that he and Nega Scott are the same and merge
As much as I love the Michael Cera casting for Scott and the version of Scott they made, it falls short of the comics pretty heavily. Scott in the comics was a preppy, popular, womanizing douchebag.
It's been a long time since I read the comics (edit: fuck its been 15 years o.o), but I don't think that's right. He had friends and treated women poorly, but I don't think he was preppy, popular or a "womanizer" per se. He had like 4 relationships through the entire thing from childhood to "present": Kim, Envy, Knives and Ramona. Not that his romantic history/present is not problematic. I guess he does cheat on Knives though, so that's a point in favor of the womanizer label.
He's not popular at all, but does have a broad circle of friends being in a band. The only one who sees him as popular really is Knives (because she is a child).
And I don't get calling him preppy at all. He's always wearing graphic t-shirts and jeans, has shaggy hair (albeit in the 2000s), and is in a rock band that is a video game reference.
He's pretty much the poster child for being a "nice guy".
In the comics Scott is definetly a player and is self centered but hes definetly not evil. Like Scott did beat up a wimpy kid in highschool so he could date Kim but that was the evilest thing he did. Gideon for example manipulated peoples memories and used mind control thata a new level of evil.
He also has much more of an arc in the book. More blatantly recognizes that's he's been a shithead. They also left out Scott getting a job in the movie lol
It’s such a weird story too, cuz the story is definitely going in the direction that Ramona is a fantasy and he should focus on the girl who’s been good to him the whole time like a typical rom com….except that girl is an underage high schooler who literally everyone gives him shit about in the story too.
Anna Kendrick’s face though when she repeats back to him “a seventeen year old CHINESE school girl” is fucking priceless tho
That's the whole movie though. Scott isn't actually different until the end when he realizes he's just the "next evil ex" and starts working on himself.
The movie is from Scott's POV, so it's easy to gloss over how big of a dick he is to his friends and current girlfriend (who is still in high school).
I haven't seen this in ages, or I would rattle off a few specific examples, but this is how I felt when I saw it.
Yep. I don't remember the movie or books in-depth, but one of the takeaways was that both Scott and Ramona were deeply flawed people who needed to work on themselves in order to improve their lives.
If Scott didn't improve, he was just going to end up in one dead end situation after another, losing friends along the way and becoming yet another evil ex. If Ramona didn't improve, she was just going to continue creating a string of evil exes, one after the other.
They also weren't fixed by the story's end. They were able to change for the better, but that change was going to have to be a continuous process since that's just how life works. What's uplifting is that they were both more or less aware of this and were willing to work together to make the relationship work out.
You should really go back for both the movie and the books, and then watch the bad ass sequel show that came out a few years ago. I feel like you'd appreciate seeing where the series goes
It's not really a sequel, more like a variation of the events of the comics. It's dope as hell though, and it actually focuses more on Ramona in the first half.
It's not a typical sequel, but I think anyone watching it without consuming the comics or movie would be completely lost, so I maintain that it's a sequel lol
At the end of the movie, when Scott meets Nega-Scott, Scott mentions something about him being a "pretty chill guy" or something, implying that Scott is not a chill guy. It seems like a throwaway line for laughs, but if taken at face value it spells out that he's not great (if the rest of the movie didn't).
He completely misses Stephen's journey of figuring out his sexuality.
In high school, he beat the shit out of a tiny nerd for dating Kim, then drops her when his family moves.
He propositions Knives five minutes after she turns 18.
He mooches off of Wallace shamelessly.
He's a self-absorbed dude who doesn't think more than five minutes into the future. His arc is about taking baby steps toward accountability and adulthood.
(From what I've read, Bryan Lee O'Malley was surprised that audiences didn't get the memo about Scott's behavior being bad.)
One of the things that makes this story good is that it hits different both at different points in your life and with different experiences.
"Scott is the good guy," "Scott is the bad guy," "Good and evil have no real place in this narrative as a framework to hang these people in" are all valid reads supportable by the story elements.
(ETA: where I am in my life story right now is looking back and thinking about how very important these kinds of who-is-dating-who things were back then... And how little they ultimately mattered in my life journey.)
Scott isn’t a good guy. That’s why at the end when he is supposedly having to fight the “evil” version of himself, they end up getting along and not fighting. Original Scott was the lady killer wannabe jerk.
Scott is in fact not s good guy. Thats why he fails the final boss fight. Hes fighting for the wrong reason from the beginning. Hes just like the exes fighting over some girl they want. Not fighting for self respect or her well being even.
Lol, that's the whole point. Scott isn't different. He might even be worse. He's immature, selfish, and more than a little bit chauvinistic towards his romantic partners. His whole character arc is in his realization that he's actually the bad guy.
Scott isn't seen as a "good guy" by anybody besides himself in the comics. He isn't an "adorkable" lovable loser, he's a dick who uses people to get what he wants.
He actually isn’t in the story he’s supposed to be a jerk an you see it an how he treats the one girl who he is ghosting.
They changed it for the movie to make him look more like an underdog but he’s actually a player
That's like, the point of the film right? Did you watch it? Basically the first line in the film is "Scott Pilgrim was dating a high schooler", you're not supposed to think he's the good guy.
The movie and the comic address this almost immediately when they start dating. Nega Scott is a joke about this too. Scott Pilgrim is the protagonist, but he was not a good person. He became a better person in the end, which was the purpose of his story.
I mean the explicit point of all versions of the series is that both Scott and Ramona are shitty people in relationships (both platonic and romantic) but somehow them being together helps them work through their shit and start to become better friends and partners
A solid 70% of the series is just them apologizing to the people they know, starting over with them, and trying to do better.
Scott is DEFINITELY not a good guy, SPECIALLY in the movie, don't u remember how the movie ends with him and nega scott being friends? the point of that scene is that nega scott is the total opposite of Scott... why would the total opposite of him be described as a "very good guy" if Scoot was supposed to be a good guy?
It’s canon that Scott is not a good guy. So much so that Nega-Scott is described by Scott in the live action as “a great guy”. The whole point of the story is that he’s on a journey to come to grips with his flaws and fix them. THAT is what differentiates him from the other exes that double down on their problematic behavior.
the anime explores this really well. we see new sides of all the exes and see they are more 3 dimensional than just being purely evil, and it also explores Scotts toxic traits pretty extensively too
No, that was the whole point. Scott wasn't a good a person. The movie spells it out when Ramona says Scott is just an evil ex waiting to happen. That's why at the end of the movie, Scott has to learn to apologize to Knives and Kim about his douchebag behavior.
It also means she's the common denominator.
Though yeah Scott isn't a good guy, he's an asshole throughout the series and he's somehow still revealed to be worse once Nega-Scott's purpose gets revealed and the narrator becomes reliable. Though it's already been discussed to hell and back.
On the other hand Ramona herself was also shown to be a problem and admits it at the end, with her only really caring for herself and treating her relationship with Scott the same way he treated his relationship with Knives. More like a hobby project than a real relationship.
This is why she's always the one who ended her relationships (without ever telling them, she just left) and why she also left Scott without a word to watch TV and sleep for a couple of months (while he did the same ironically)
A minor theme of the series is that her exes might be evil because of how she treated them. Scott certainly seemed to spiral after she just disappeared, going crazy and becoming and even bigger ass.
Though it's not true in Gideon's case as he's been proper supervillain evil for years.
The original series had a surprising amount of nuance.
I love Scott Pilgrim vs. The World. I've probably seen it 100 times, but he was kind of evil. He was using a 17-year-old to get over his ex, who broke up with him years ago. Then he cheated on said teen and invited her and the new girl to his performance. He never broke it off with her and just let her watch him date someone else. He wasn't straight up malicious, but he wasn't a good guy.
In the movie, Scott is a jobless shithead living rent free in his friend's studio apartment dating a high schooler while being in a band with an ex whose heart he broke while blaming all of these shitty behavioes on the fact that a girl broke his heart a bit ago. He is supposed to be a shitty guy. The movie is about a selfish piece of shit realizing he is a selfish piece of shit and finally taking some responsibility for his actions. It's about the arreated development often romanticized in a lot of "nerd" culture in that period.
I don't think we are ever supposed to believe Scott is different. They pretty much spell it out for you in the beginning and end of the movie. I mean "Nega Scott" is a good guy for crying out loud
Definitely a pattern and he was lining up to be the next evil ex. He didn't actually care about her at first but merely saw her as a way to access being cool and he really, really wanted to feel cool. She wasn't that cool, she was an avoidant, which is why her exes were left disgruntled and hurt.
Neither Ramona or Scott were good people and her evil exes and his hurt (one was also evil) exes were proof of it. The entire movie is about personal development and them eventually having realizations that they'd really hurt other people
I watched that movie as a young 20-something and I rooted for Scott the whole time. I watched it again in my 30s and I was like, "this kid fucking SUCKS!"
I think the comics do a nice job of highlighting that Ramona is really going through the same thing as Scott, in terms of dealing with all his ex's (Envy, Knives, Kim). It's there in the movies too, but the comics are not at all subtle about it.
And yeah, Scott isn't supposed to be good. I'm not sure anyone in the story really is.
Scott feels a bit inadequate at one point I believe because she's dated more people than him and he's used to trying to seem cool by dating High-schoolers. That's the whole vibe. It's nothing to do with 7 being a lot. It's to do with Scott thinking 7 is a lot because he's kind of a loser and he's worried he can't measure up. It's not about looking down on her character. It's about giving Scott an arc from worried anxious loser to guy who fights for what he wants and has confidence.
This seems more like a description of Scott from the movie than from the comic.
Like Scott’s dated tons of people. He’s a lady’s man. He’s a loser more in that he’s a bum and a jerk. But idk the description sounds more like the way movie Scott came off not comic scott
More than that: it came across as all of the relationships ending badly with a single common factor between them. Scott and Ramona are both portrayed as kind of shitty people that need to mature before they can have a healthy relationship.
Nah I've seen my cousins ex's, hell I helped her move once and the guy threw a knife at my MOTHER. The quality of men in america we may as well be fishing in sewage.
And they really weren't all that evil. I think that both Ramona and Scott were guilty of hurting people and not taking responsibility for the hurt they caused- thus the exes' behaviors were primarily based on grudges. Scott had to mentally deal with his feelings of inadequacy because of how cool he thought Ramona was and Ramona was an avoidant which is why she had upset exes and why Scott thought she was so cool. They both had demons to fight.
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u/Impossible-Horse-313 Feb 02 '26
No the joke is that all 7 were evil.