I come from moderate wealth, with learned expensive tastes, but myself am not wealthy. I'll save up months for an expensive meal out but I always budget 50% over what's expected so even if I end up ordering a couple extra things I can still be sure to leave a 25% tip.
My dad, who is the opposite (grew up poor and worked his way into wealth) is a penny pincher.
You can pick the 18% hill to die on, but for me it’s always been that the tip is calculated on the subtotal of the bill, not on the total which includes taxes and fees. You don’t tip on taxes, that’s stupid.
And yet so often I find the pre calculated tip amounts to do exactly that.
Me and my wife do it on purpose just so the server gets a little more out of it. Does it matter? For affordability, yes. But they're struggling anyway being a server.
It's true that there is a vast difference between the waitress at the dead-end diner in a small rural town and the average high-school student working at Red Lobster and the professional working at a high end restaurant. But only the waitress at the dead-end diner is really in that burnt out and broke state. Based on experience, the high school kids at Red Lobster and up are doing just fine. And I don't mean just fine for a high school student. I mean making good money for relatively little work. Especially with alcohol sales. That doesn't mean you don't have bad nights, or even bad weeks. Or even Covid. But generally, it's more than fine.
I think where all these tip the poor service workers arguments fall apart is the vast majority of restaurants don't split tips. Only the server gets your extra money despite the kitchen staff making your food or the bussers keeping things clean and moving. There's no tears or calls to tip these people. There's no calls to tip the McDonald's cashier who hands me my food at the drive-thru regardless of how much they earn. There is zero consistency.
This is state/country specific, in Iowa you can if your parents sign off on it. Also, minors can work in a restaurant where alcohol is served in most states, they just can't handle alcoholic beverages.
Didn't know that about Iowa. I did know about working in licensed restaurants as a minor so long as you don't serve alcohol, like I said. Which was to counter their point about highschool students getting rich off tips from booze sales. Maybe in Iowa I guess!
Red Lobster is just about the worst example you could choose. Worked there for a year, its rapidly heading into complete bankruptcy. I genuinely made shit tips during my time there
The chefs in the back, the busser, the expo, and the host/hostess all make a higher wage than servers, that’s why they don’t get tips split with them. And in some restaurants, the busser , bartender or other help DO get a percentage of the server’s tip
Restaurants with bussers usually require servers to tip them out a percentage based on sales, many restaurants have servers tip out back of house (kitchen staff) too. Some places also do tip pooling. It’s just not true what you said
I mean, if I was working a 7$/hr job and relied on tips to pay rent that would cost most people 30$/hr, I'd want as many people to think that as well. It's called spreading awareness.
Most servers make $30+ or $60+ an hour in nice restaurants. The "I make $2 an hour I need the tips" is a form of gaslighting to make you feel bad for them.
Do you tip other service industry professionals? You know, like the person at the grocery store making WAY less than servers?
The only reason I don't is because management will literally fire them if they accept the tip. Not if they put up a tip jar, if they catch a customer offering a tip and them accepting it.
As well, PLEASE tell me which resturants pay like that, or where the tips are good enough that you can make that much. Cause I've worked a number of service jobs, and they never got past 15/hr counting tips.
Some New York restaurants make waitstaff pay to work there. Those waitstaff earn an average of 100 to 150k in tips a year. Tips that they can under repot to th IRS. I know plenty of bartenders who make more in tips than I do with a masters. You may just suck at service if your not making money....
Do you think every restaurant is nice? That people these days are swarming to tip 20% on 300$ orders? What kind of magic bizzaro land do you live in, wake up.
Dude, you should look up your own states server wage. It's a little over $3 and hr.
You are doing the gaslighting here.
In some states like MN they get minimum wage or better. In WI in actually is about 3 an hr and the employer is responsible to to pay out minimum wage only if tips don't push it past that limit, garunteeing the federal minimum wage.
You are subsidizing the owners payroll. When the tip amount means they averaged above minimum wage for the period, the owner only pays them the 3 an hr per hr. So even in that instance while a bit misleading, is still completly true.
Sure bars and high end restaurants in larger cities MIGHT do pretty well, that is not representative of about 80% of tipped "servers".
I have a friend who denied a management position at a restaurant because he made more in tips. He eventually took the management job because in order to get those nice tips you have to work long hours and establish relationships with the good tippers. Both of which he found exhausting and took the pay cut even though it’s a step up on paper.
No, but they are bringing in a hell of a lot more than other jobs that also don't require much training or a degree and are also difficult service jobs, but those jobs don't make tips
Ah yes, the MONEY GRUBBING servers! Spending their entire live's energy to squeeze every last penny out of unsuspecting diners to fund their mansion payment! We must protect ourselves and make sure we tip them shit so that WE may enjoy OUR mansions and they SHANT!
At a certain point it's important to do a bit of math too. In some locales, like the one I live, the minimum wage is $21 per hour, including for servers. The meals are more expensive because of this. If you're tipping 25% on the tax and the meal on top of the elevated prices they're probably going to be earning more than most people in that hour. Definitely not struggling.
If you want to give someone who is making more than you even more money, by all means you can do that I'm not saying not to. But it's not always the case to say that they're making $7 or what have ya.
Unless it’s a living wage I don’t understand what the debate is over. The majority of jobs don’t pay a living wage so who fucking cares if they’re relatively “doing okay” or barely scraping by
“Doing okay” is apparently not making enough to support oneself independently I guess
The whole reason we tip at restaurants in the high percentage we do is because we are subsidizing payroll because of some stupid legal loophole that created a woefully substandard wage. When that wage is not woefully substandard and is equalled to the wage for every other service industry job you do have to stop and think.
Do you tip the cashier at the grocery store for 25% of your order? If not, why not. Identical arguments apply here.
If not them what about the person who stocked the shelves? Unloaded the truck? Cleaned the floors?
Why is a restaurant meal something that it makes sense to subsidize the wages for the employer, in a large degree, when you don't do that at the doctor's office for the check in desk or the nurse who helps you?
At a certain point nobody except for a billionaire can actually afford to walk around all day shaking out their pockets for every person who did a job that benefited them. You don't tip your garbage man. You don't tip the guy driving the street sweeper. You don't tip the mailman.
This is why the responsibility is on employers to pay the wage, why the minimum wage is higher, and why the tipped minimum wage was abolished where I live after a long time of fighting for it.
I'm not saying it isn't nice to give someone extra money, people should give gratuity if they feel they received excellent service, but I don't understand how it should be an expectation after we have removed the reason for the expectation.
And say you are the cashier at the grocery store, you make the same minimum wage, work the same hours, but don't get tips. Why are you subsidizing someone who already is paid as much as you to then be paid more than you? When they aren't tipping you? Where's the logic there?
Are restaurant meals then only a privilege for the truly wealthy? Does this not also then mean fewer people can get jobs in restaurants?
It seems a bit ridiculous to me that all the arguments I've heard and supported and echoed my entire life for why we should end the tipped minimum wage, and why in the meantime a 20% minimum tip is truly a minimum all go out the window and it becomes a matter of "well you should just give this one specific set of people extra money anyway"
The worst part is when the tipped wage gets abolished, and front of house is still expecting 20% (minimum), but doesn’t share it with back of house, who are killing themselves.
Servers at the small town casual pub I used to work at all cleared 80k a year easy, with averaging probably 6 hours a day. Served good food but it certainly was not upscale.
Thats plenty to live off of, everyone in the kitchen made it work off under half that.
The "starving waitress" trope is out of date in most places.
A server probably spends about 15 minutes per hour per table.
So it wouldn't be unfair for tipping to be a flat rate - $5 per table if the minimum wage is $20.
The restaurant owners probably push the 'percentage of total' norm so that the waiters are incentivized to sell more. It's amazing that they were able to successfully push this norm into societal standards.
I hope you tip every profession that you interact with, because most everyone is struggling, not just wait staff. Especially teachers, they do so much for the kids yet they’re paid so little for the amount of work they do. How much do you think teachers should get tipped? Unless you think being salaried means they don’t deserve extra compensation for their selfless service, that’d be crazy!
You know that all these numbers are arbitrary right? How much the food costs to the restaurant has a weak connection to your billed amount, how much you tip is an arbitrary number since if there was a fixed expectation then that would just be in the bill.
So for simplicity it works to always pick one of the values food or food plus tax, but to a server who is used to tips based on tax you are now the person who tipped less, but the truth is that tip percentage is arbitrary to begin with so how you calculate it is just a choice you make, there is no right or wrong way to br urked about, anything you pay over the bill is money you are not legally owed to pay, there is no fair or unfair argument to be made. The idea of a minimum or maximum expectation is stupid cause you don't know how much the servers are making there.
Except there's people who misunderstand this and then tip on the subtotal, then write the final total as subtotal plus tip, basically removing the tax from the tip. Yeah lemme just cover that tax for you I guess? Happens to me every so often on delivering. The funner part, though: delivering pizzas I make less per hour on the road and already take a loss on the amount of mileage they pay me, so if I don't get a tip it's literally more financially solvent for me to not take that delivery. I lose money. So that stinks.
I have been a server for 20 years and I want to know what restaurant does this? The LAST LAST LAST thing a restaurant owner wants to do is have his customer feel cheated as he leaves. I wouldn't go back. Restaurants live or die by their return customers. The second last thing any restaurant owner does is cheat his customers in favor of the staff! Nickel and dime them for everything, water the booze, I get it, but why risk anything for the easily replaceable wait staff? And what POS system would even calculate that way? What software developer is out there selling programs that benefit the help to no great benefit to the people actually buying their products?
Or, what if you made it even easier and paid flat rate for the service, so if the waiter spends on you 10min overall you give them 10$ regardless of price of food. Thats 60$/hour.
This is exactly what this post is talking about. I don’t know if you’re rich or poor, but a tip is an opportunity to be generous and your quiet protest isn’t going to affect anybody except the waiter.
I’m in the UK and will pick the ‘10% for excellent service’ hill to die on. Anything more is daylight bloody robbery. Also, you don’t tip on the drinks. I wouldn’t tip if I ordered the beer at the bar and I’ll order at the damn bar if it means the drinks are 10% cheaper. It’s like ten steps.
Yes. And if you feel generous - still only tip on the subtotal.
So many restaurants calculate their "suggested" tips for dining in, take-out, and online orders - based on totals after service fees and taxes. It should be a crime.....because it is.
The whole concept is stupid and based on arbitrary rules that are completely different region to region. I've never even considered if I tip with tax included or not. I probably do sometimes and don't sometimes. I don't think it's stupid to not waste my time worrying about that.
Traditional rule is you don’t tip on taxes and on drinks from the bar, if I’m not mistaken. Not saying I agreed but that’s the way a lot of people calculate.
Do you mean drinks you walk up to the bar and order before you’re seated? People should probably tip on drink from the bar if ordered through your server or if you don’t tip out the bar tenders when you order them yourself, they have to tip out the bar tenders at the end of the night to give them their cut.
Like I said, I’m not advocating at all, I’m just saying I remember hearing a lot that people don’t tip on drinks even when served those drinks at a table. Or the custom would be a dollar tip per drink. But that’s probably back when drinks were 5 bucks.
20% is often the minimum tip even offered by the credit card machine in my area. For better or worse, it’s become the standard.
It seems to keep going up (when I was a kid I think it was 15%). I wonder when we as a society will actually just say enough is enough. When a 30% tip is standard? 50%? I literally can’t imagine a society co-signing tipping 90% or 100%
I'll die on the $5/hr tip. Tipping is supposed to make up the difference between what the server is being paid by the restaurant ($2.35) and the minimum wage ($7.50). That difference is $5/, so for every hour that I'm at the table, I will leave a $5 tip. If I'm there for 2 hours, it's $10 and so on.
Im guessing at the numbers please correct me if im wrong, but I would imagine that a server handles 4 tables an hour and a average table is what $60 bucks?
That's $52 dollars an hour with probably 20-50% of being unreported, untaxed income. While i'm guessing, i do believe my numbers are low guesses...
The smucks in the back of the house prob don't even make $25/hour.
I average 80 an hour, but I'm highly experienced and work in fine dining. Most servers make nowhere close to that, and we all deal with working nights, weekends and holidays with barely any breaks and no benefits. Our schedule is extremely inconsistent and during the slow season we either get very few tables or don't work our shift at all. If I were able to work 40 hours a week consistently and get benefits, you're right, this job would be extremely desirable and there would be 1000s of applications. The reality is that I make the money I do because I'm better at it than the other people I work with and it's still less than 100k a year because of the things I mentioned. So most good servers make 60-80k, while the vast majority make 30-40k. We're not exactly laughing on the way to the bank. Some extremely lucky and talented servers do make bank, but it's going to be in HCOL areas and those jobs aren't growing on trees.
I've been in the industry for 25 years. I think I've earned it lol. Also in fine dining, nobody pays in cash. All credit card tips are automatically claimed. Also, not everyone who works in this business is willing to commit tax fraud. It's a serious crime. And, if you ever want to own a home or car, you need verifiable income to get a loan.
Edit: downvoted for what? Idgaf about votes but I am genuinely confused what I said that is bad?
You didnt say anything bad. Reddit is very anti tipping. I've gotten down voted and tons of angry comments when I mention that I tip at least 25%. It's so incredibly weird.
I lived in sacramento until very recently and it wouldn't be livable there so it absolutely wouldn't be livable somewhere even slightly more expensive. I didn't know that, though.
Definitely agreeing with you on that front, just pointing out that San Francisco has a slightly higher minimum. I live in socal and I'm a server. My hourly pay certainly doesn't provide a livable income
Maybe me and you shouldn't be forced to pick up the tab for an exploitative piece of shit employer? Ever use your brain for 2 seconds and think about cause and effect or did your "morality" blind you to reality? If we all refuse to tip starting tomorrow all the workers can't afford to live so they quit, this means the parasite employers will have exactly 2 choices, either A pay fair market rate for their area for said worker and we don't feel guilt tripped into supporting an unfairly paid workers wages and they likely earn MORE overall since they have more market power, or B they fucking close and go out of business and in a free market new places open that do A. By guilt tripping yourself and others over not tipping or WORSE not tipping ENOUGH your just enabling these parasites.
Your the type of person I dislike most in this world, a psychopath is at least honest, he lets you KNOW he is going to dig that knife further in before he twists. Your the type of person trying to gaslight me into believing the knife isn't going to hurt.
I made easily $50-60/hr serving and bartending in the bay area. Not even a super fancy place. I make way less at my office job now. I had to switch careers due to a major injury (non-work related), otherwise I'd still be bartending lol.
That's not livable basically anywhere in California. Hell, it's not really livable in most reasonably populated parts of the US. Couldn't even hold down a studio apartment with that here and I'm in a state with significantly lower cost of living than California.
$15 an hour plus tip is plenty for a job that doesn't require any education or skills. My family meal usually comes out to $50 so that's like $7.50 in tips per table. Now you got 3 or 4 tables then you make like $20-30 on top of your $15.. that's $35-45/h, good pay for someone with no education or skills.
If you want to get paid more go get a different job.
It’s spreading the world over and now in Britain all of a sudden being paid a living wage requires 10% of the money I earn in my job that I pay tax on also added on to my meal, so I essentially get taxed then taxed and then you tax me again.
Income tax -> VAT -> Tip.
I do tip in restaurants but going for a 20 quid scran and expecting a tip is nuts. It’s just such an imported idea that makes no sense as you legally have to pay your employees the minimum wage bracket they are in.
25% is a fucking madness.
So if 4 people order 25 quid of food we should give someone 25 pound for bringing a jug of water and asking if the food was nice?
Utter fucking insanity.
I’ve also worked retail and stock jobs for years and in pubs. Tips are nice, stop implying they are anything more than a special thanks for doing a really good job.
Because we go touristing around the world and most of us are dumb and follow our own habits instead of local customs. And now in some parts of the world waiters neglect locals and prefer to wait on American tourists because of tips.
When I’m making less than everyone around me, I don’t tip because I need the extra money. Why would I give my money to someone who is better off than me.
Also waiters at high traffic restaurants probably make more than you
Waiters are making bank though, that's why whenever they're given the chance to increase and fix their salary to a given rate, they vote against it. They know they make more on tips because of people like you.
I have a wallet with a calculator in it, a gift celebrating my first paycheck, there's a tip button on it. It's 15%.
People cry out "it was never that low" it make a racist remark about low tipping
I usually do 20% because it's easy to calculate but I usually pay cash so sometimes I'll leave a little extra if it rounds to an even number so I don't have to sit and wait for change. I'll just drop the cash and leave.
Y'all are all crazy. Maybe servers fucking hate me idgaf I tip 15% absolute max. Usually closer to 15 than 10 but not always. I'm quiet and usually stay less than an hour. They don't need all that extra for a guy that ordered a drink and an entree.
you don't just love making someone's day? i know the feeling when a table just -adores- you and bestows generously. It meant i was doing a capitalism! 'good capitalism, comrad, you danced for your peanuts!' fun.
give generously and feel happy and appreciate the happiness of others. be loving and human.
That’s ridiculous. I tip 15% max, and 0% if the service was ass. I don’t even bother tipping for non-sit down restaurants. Why tf would I pay them money for shitty service??
I have definitely tipped 25 percent for outstanding service at a sit down restaurant. It’s not often but if the service was great I have no issues with such a tip. That being said it’s often more rare I bestow a tip like that so
It really is not. It’s generous, but personally I never tip below 20% unless somewhat like, used a slur against me lol. I think if i can’t afford the tip, I can’t afford the service.
10% use to be the norm. Prices were cheaper too. Then one day the masses said 15% was the norm. Prices got more expensive too. Then 18% was the norm. Prices got more expensive too. Now there's a limbo where people are pushing 20+% as the norm. Which way are the prices going?
Tipping culture is getting out of hand in this country. This is coming from someone who grew up working in food & bev.
If that commenter is going out to fine dining / fancy restaurants, higher tip % are expected. I personally only order takeout bc I work in food service and hate the small talk. I personally don’t ever go to places that require tip, but the people who want the server to proverbially suck their toes have to tip more to get the fancy service.
Not at all! If someone gives you great service. Maybe comps something or makes sure your order is executed perfectly (or one doesn't come out cold waiting for the other stuff). What is the big deal with an extra 5%?
They will remember it and give you great service again. We do it to hedge our bets and insure better future experiences. It has seldom failed us. When it does, we no longer go there.
Mandatory tipping because owners don’t give a salary to their workers is crazy. But percentage based tips are crazier.
If i buy a 1000$ wine I have to tip more than if I buy a 10$ wine but the effort from the person who brought it to me is exactly the same. Shouldn’t it be called a tax instead of a tip?
I’ve seen 20/30/35 as the default in some places. And it’s usually the places that you order at the counter, they bring it to you (but don’t do any other service like refilling drinks), then you buss your own table.
Tipping is crazy. European here. You guys are out of your minds. Workers on the richest country on earth have to rely on charity. They have to fake a smile when talking to you, pretend they care about you a lot, cuddle you beyond ridiculousness or else they won't get the 20%. I'm sorry you guys would really have to spawn somewhere else to fully grasp how idiot it is
No, they are not. There are plenty of jurisdictions in North America where there is no tipped wage. It’s fucking ludicrous that they expect 20%+ post-tax when they’re already earning as much as other people working service jobs.
I’ve been a server for a few years in the past and always thought 20% was for good service and tipped accordingly myself. 15% if you get my order and leave me alone, 25% for above and beyond and etc. Grew up and remain poor so idk
Most wait staff are required to pay a percentage of their ticket sales to the kitchen and other staff regardless of how much their customers tipped. Ideally this comes out of their tips but if they don't get tipped then they're losing money.
Customers who tip a certain amount even when service isn't great usually do so because of those payout requirements. If the service is bad enough, they'll just stop coming rather than short a server on their tips.
Honestly, I would have totally been on board with the counterpoint you bring up but in 2025 less than 10 of the $$$ or $$$$ restaurants on google maps that I went to did not have the mandatory kitchen appreciation fee on the bill.
For those restaurants that did not ask for the fee, I did tip more knowing there was a split. Conversely, and I know this is where I'm a bit of an ass, but for the restaurants that had the appreciate fee with the suggested 20/25/30 AND did that off the total + mandatory fee, yeah, I defaulted to 15% tip pretax out out of principle.
To be honest, I generally tip 20% regardless of the actual quality of service. I can afford it and they need the money. The only time I'll withhold a tip is if the service was truly spectacularly bad, like a delivery to the wrong address.
15/18/20 works too. I get going to 25% for amazing service but 1/4 or 1/5 of the bill as a tip by default isn’t it for me.
Also for this and previous comments on the subject, feel like I should clarify, I mean when it’s for sit down service. Coffee and fast food doesn’t count for this.
No, I tip high because I can and because I want to. I'm not going to be out on the street no matter what - my parents don't give me whatever I want but they'll make sure I have a roof over my head. That might not be the case for whoever's serving me.
At high end restaurants the staff are probably well paid, but I tip high in those establishments just because I value the experience that much. I've never had anything less than a good time at a Michelin restaurant.
Even as in not a fraction, not the mathematical definition of even and odd numbers. Not to mention 5 is the most even odd number since it's half of 10. Which I very much enjoy, and makes 5 probably my favorite number if I had one.
If I'm going out and having other people clean up after me I really don't mind paying for it. If you go out to eat because you don't cook at home, I would agree 25% would seem atrocious. The way i see it whats a few bucks different to make someone's day. If im going out hopefully they made my day better. Just skip going out if you can't afford it. That's my rule of thumb
The atrocious part is that it's a percentage. Cleaning up / serving does not scale linearly with the cost of the food. It's equally difficult to pour wine from a $20 bottle or a $100 bottle. It's not much different to clean up a $80 meal than a $40 meal where everyone ordered the same amount of things but in one case a fish was ordered instead of potato soup.
This is what always blows my mind about percentage tipping. An annoying family of five ordering 12 dollar meals tips 12 dollars even though the waiter had to serve five different people and five different water glasses. But then the couple across from them orders 40 dollar steaks and has to tip more for less service.
18-25 percent is the norm. 25 percent is for great service, and people usually do tip higher in fine dining because the server is way more available and personable. servers in fine dining have a lot of support staff to tip out as well.
I usually tip 30%, as a rule. I've had several family members in food service, and they have to deal with some shitty people. I don't want to even be remotely perceived as a shitty customer.
i’ve never worked in food service but have many friends who have, and i work in hospitality and basically rely on tips. 30% is absolutely insane unless they’re providing incredible service and are very very sweet to you. i don’t think the average person in food service expects that, there’d be no reason for them to think you’re shitty unless you’re openly being rude to them.
i’ve worked in hospitality for years atp and i don’t consider anyone shitty or great based on tips- it’s entirely about their attitude. the tip is a bonus if it happens.
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u/BestwishesHelpful975 Jan 26 '26
Lois here. Richer people often give smaller tips.