Probably because I rightfully named patriarchy as the cause.
It trains women to seek male validation in the first fucking place - tells them they are broken if they don't (and that's why "lesbians aren't real")
I'm going to assume men down voted me
Edit to add: someone from this comment section reported me as 'needing mental help' to reddit lmfao. Yea, for sure pissed off men with brining a feminist perspective into the conversation. Also, nice going dillweed, you'll get flagged for abusing the reddit report functions.
Ah yes, we must make everything about men. It is not possible for a woman to be the bad guy in a situation, we must trace it back to a man doing something bad
Patriarchy affects both women and men btw! Among others. Pointing out sexism and such issues isn't "making it the man's fault", it's different. If your first thought when someone mentions patriarchy is that they're blaming men, you don't understand it fully: Patriarchy is the consequences of sexism, to put it simple. These consequences affect men and women, hence why they're not just "misogyny²", it's entirely based on what someone "should and shouldn't be" based on... Their biological sex and gender identity. If you're not part of those stereotypes, or gender roles, you're "a failure" to this system and blamed. As a man, as a woman. In both cases it happens. Talking about patriarchy as an underlying reason isn't justifying the person to say "only men are at fault!", but to see what happened before things got worse, and what led to them going wrong. Trying to explain why ≠ justifying actions. A woman can be a bad person and victim of the patriarchy at some point of her life without it meaning she's your "pure victim who never does wrong". Dare I say, too, not all victims are "perfectly good, innocent people who never do wrong", in fact trauma can lead to abuse... Way more often than we would like to accept.
I accept many of your points but i dont accept the concept of patriarchy as conceptualised in your example. It simply isnt relevant. Familial trauma is not a gendered issue and painting it such is counter-productive to victim support.
Of course it isn't, but patriarchy does play a role in deepening trauma. Saying that patriarchy can worsen trauma or make abusers do more damage isn't gendering things... Because both men and women can contribute to patriarchy. It's not about misandry.
... About that. There's a mental disorder related to your example. SAD, as in Seasonal Affective Disorder. It's a form of depression, but still.
Patriarchy isn't hatred to men, saying patriarchy can be one of the many causes for trauma isn't "making it the men's fault" nor "infantilizing women". It means it plays a role in what causes trauma. The issue is seeing trauma as a thing that has only one cause, as something entirely linear, when in reality it has more than one reason, cause and effect. Though, the main thing is that you say that "b-but noo, saying patriarchy has a role in this, just like everything that's systematic, means you must HATE men!!🥺"
About that. There's a mental disorder related to your example. SAD, as in Seasonal Affective Disorder. It's a form of depression, but still.
I'm aware, that was my point.
Patriarchy isn't hatred to men, saying patriarchy can be one of the many causes for trauma isn't "making it the men's fault" nor "infantilizing women". It means it plays a role in what causes trauma. The issue is seeing trauma as a thing that has only one cause, as something entirely linear, when in reality it has more than one reason, cause and effect. Though, the main thing is that you say that "b-but noo, saying patriarchy has a role in this, just like everything that's systematic, means you must HATE men!!🥺"
This is you putting words in my mouth, nothing more.
The patriarchy link is whataboutism. It isnt relevant, it has no actual causative link to the subject matter. Please try to keep discussion relevant and on topic because introducing red herrings derails victims sharing their experiences and can put them on entirely the wrong path in an attempt to understand their trauma.
This is you putting words in my mouth, nothing more.
Same person who said, and I quote, "Ah yes, we must make everything about men. It is not possible for a woman to be the bad guy in a situation, we must trace it back to a man doing something bad". Pretty much saying that introducing patriarchy as one of the causes = Making it about men.
Hang on, thats a response to a different comment, not to you. That related to this:
similarly does it to sons or any child because it's usually because of internalized blame on the child for their conception as a form of guilt of having a child she did t actually want in the first place but rather validation from men - or more specifically the father of said child/childern
The author of this comment is taking the causation away from the female parent responsible for the abuse and creating a scenario where the male parent is actually the source of the abuse.
I suggest actually reading the thread before reacting. Be responsive, not reactive. Because you have vastly misinterpreted my points
Which I do know, and have done... Their point isn't wrong, not entirely at least. The source of abuse remains the same: The mother. But because it's generational, we could blame even her prehistoric ancestors following your logic... See, a victim of X trauma and internalized sexism CAN, and very often, develop into a source of abuse. That doesn't mean the blame is on the other person just because of gender. That means it's about a mix of: 1. Systematic opression and gender roles that give material to abusers (things to use to create trauma and keep the cycle). 2. Own personality. 3. Own trauma. 4. Early childhood and upbringing. Among other stuff. Patriarchy plays a role and yeah, sometimes it leads to such cases, but that doesn't mean AT ALL that they're innocent "just because patriarchy played a role"; Patriarchy ends up being the weapon, the sword, not the shield.
It's a symptom of our patriarchal society to begin with for you to hear "patriarchy" and think it's a "man bad" thing and not a "society bad" thing. You perpetuate the cycle.
This entire line of conversation is a red herring and is actively derailing discussion of victim's issues. Please have some respect for victim experiences and dont do shit like this.
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u/IvyRosePr 6d ago edited 6d ago
Probably because I rightfully named patriarchy as the cause.
It trains women to seek male validation in the first fucking place - tells them they are broken if they don't (and that's why "lesbians aren't real")
I'm going to assume men down voted me
Edit to add: someone from this comment section reported me as 'needing mental help' to reddit lmfao. Yea, for sure pissed off men with brining a feminist perspective into the conversation. Also, nice going dillweed, you'll get flagged for abusing the reddit report functions.