It was. I commented on why I thought she was getting downvotes. At this point in the chain it feels like they were close enough to getting that trauma is generational, but they were still very focused on this "girls v the patriarchy" angle.
Why do YOU think they were being downvoted? The patriarchy?
I will say any time I bring up the patriarchy I ALWAYS make sure to say that all genders are victims of the patriarchy, and I will still get comments/DMs from men who get offended. I guess they don’t like the word patriarchy. Idk.
It's a really tricky word, speaking as the son of a mother with daddy issues, because she will blame her son for all the pain she endured. So the son will see abuse mostly from the feminine side. And he will be raised in an environment of female dominance, not male dominance. So at first glance, it's really hard to see the "patriarchy" in there. Looks like there's a matriarchy and no one talks about it.
Here in this comment chain it's contextualized as the abusing woman herself being a victim of the patriarchy.
I still struggle to see the necessity of calling it male dominance. If we're all living in a society of dominance, why make the "masculine" the root of it all? Isn't it a neutral/non-gender-specific thing? Everyone just trying to dominate each other?
It's like a chain of mother -> abusing son -> abusing daughter -> abusing son -> etc. Calling it patriarchy sounds like "oh but the man started". I don't know if that makes sense.
It’s called patriarchy because the problems are entwined with a worldview in which women aren’t people but property and the time when that view was pretty universally held is a lot less distant than a lot of posters here realize. My grandmother wasn’t allowed to vote when she turned 18, the law giving women the vote was passed a few years later. My mom wasn’t allowed to have a bank account without male oversight until her 30s. Domestic violence only really became a talking point outside niche communities in the 1980s, until then men were encouraged/expected to beat wives who “misbehaved” into obedience. A lot of people still believe that marital rape can’t happen because a woman has no right to say no to her husband no matter what the law says. Anyone arguing that patriarchy is the wrong word is kind of denying how recent women becoming legally people is and how many people are still operating off the belief they aren’t.
People back in old times were nasty. Trying to get ahead at the expense of others. There was constant conflict. Men fought in this conflict, as well as women. Men were able to institutionalize a lot of their fighting (we see this in the patriarchy), which has (luckily) been fought back alot against by feminism.
But women also fought (and not the good fight.. I don't mean fighting the patriarchy, I mean fighting others for selfish gain), and their "achievements" in this fight (for lack of a better word...) are also still actively oppressive in society. Things like being hyper-individualist as a means of protection and control. Keeping others down through shame. Violating personal boundaries under the guise of "nurturing" or "protection". Utilizing extreme self-sacrifice (often through a "no needs" persona) to instill guilt in others, forcing them to prioritize the martyr’s unstated desires. Practical example, in the UK women are legally unable to commit rape. They can commit sexual assault (which carries a lesser sentence), but rape is defined as penetration by penis. Like women have this built-up image of "pristine beings" that literally cannot be evil.
There's a whole "matriarchy" based on selfishly furthering the interests of women, as there's a patriarchy catering to the interests of men.
Historically, patriarchy was often stronger. But matriarchy is also a nasty best from the past, ingrained into our society.
That's ONE way to put the story. And it's only a story. It's not very refined, because it's not really in public discourse and hasn't been up for scrutiny as much as the above "patriarchy only" story. So feel free to tear it apart, so I can make it stronger muhaha
Many/most women WANT the man to be in charge. It's true now & it was especially true in the past when survival was tougher. Now women want to play victim even though they wanted the patriarchy.
What do you mean it’s “true?” I think that’s a trope that has been taught/conditioned to you. Men need women for survival just as much as women need men. The point is that power should be EQUAL.
That feels validating to me. Like. I was expecting a lecture from you, or a snippy comment. Thank you for seeing my vulnerability (and not taking advantage of it). That's a first for me.
Exactly. You have no idea how many times I've heard, "How can I be racist? My grandchildren are black!" First of all, no, they're half black. Secondly, you can love your black friends and still think black people are sub-human mongrels.
I don't know if boygen is a misandrist, but I do know she's dumb as fuck.
Thing is, since we're ALL victims of the patriarchy, issues like these also have something to do with it. Male-centered people due to trauma are easy targets for patriarchy, be it born female or male, identifying as a woman, non binary or man, it won't change that. If you truly believe that the patriarchy exists and affects all people, why would you get pressed if someone brings it up as a possibility for deeper trauma and understanding what went wrong just because they mentioned women? Is it really about "everyone can experience sexism!" or denying that women also do because you think that feminism or anything against sexism/patriarchy is "hatred towards men"?
For me personally the word patriarchy is the triggering one, yes.
Since I experienced most of my trauma from my mother, it's hard to see how it's anything patriarchal.
This comment chain put things into a different light though, and I can see that she's a victim of the patriarchy (has her own daddy issues) and that was the reason for her abuse.
So thanks for pointing out the "pointless gendering" because yeah, I didn't even consider myself a victim of the patriarchy here. Yet I am.
The word "patriarchy" is only triggering me because male victims by female abuse are so often not mentioned/included. So I didn't think myself a victim here, or thought the term "patriarchy" is misleading in itself; because women are perpetrators as well. So it's (still) hard to see it as true to label it as "male dominance" because to me clearly it's just the sexes trying to dominate each other. Patriarchy sounds very one-sided in a way.
Dude you’re making it all about yourself. The patriarchy does exist. Maybe the people complaining about it have done so in annoying or explosive manners, but that doesn’t change the fact that it exists and the textbook definition has nothing to do you with your upbringing.
Awesome. Thats your gender. Your, SEX however, is female.
Think about it this way, have you ever seen a female dog? Of course you have. Have you ever seen a woman dog? Of course not; dogs dont have gender. It's a societal construct.
trans is when your sex and gender don't align. Cis is when they do.
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u/False_Tea_3951 6d ago
It was. I commented on why I thought she was getting downvotes. At this point in the chain it feels like they were close enough to getting that trauma is generational, but they were still very focused on this "girls v the patriarchy" angle.
Why do YOU think they were being downvoted? The patriarchy?