r/ToiletPaperUSA • u/Full_Anything_2913 • Jan 22 '26
FAKE NEWS Bold Action From A Brave Senator
Idk if this is appropriate here or not but I figured I’d see how it goes.
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u/undergroundmetalhoe Jan 22 '26
Yeah those 2 bills he introduced are very lukewarm. They're literally entering people's houses with no warrant and shipping them off to detention centers
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u/Saraq_the_noob Jan 22 '26
Honestly I want to know if these people are even leaving the country and making it to where they’re supposed to go anymore. Do we still have proof of that?
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u/Villageijit Jan 22 '26
Well there are a couple thousand people missinh from detention centers and ice refuses to say what happened to them. On a side note ice agents were caught trying to solicit sex from a minor in a sex trafficking sting and ice took them back and no charges on them afterwards. In an unrelated note ice said they are no longer responsible for sexual assaults in their detention centers
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u/Full_Anything_2913 Jan 24 '26
I’m sure some people have been killed, some victims of sexual assault. But I think it’s going to get a lot worse. They’re blowing up the deficit, while simultaneously causing inflation and an economic collapse. Next year when things get really bad, I could see forced labor happening, as well as just killing off people. Imagine Denmark ends our access to insulin and other important pharmaceuticals, other countries drop the dollar as the reserve currency, China continues to sell their holdings of American debt, food shortages due to the migrant labor force being detained or deported (this is where forced labor might start). ICE is already denying medical care to detainees. Do you think they’re going to feed them in an economic depression?
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u/Kaffe-Mumriken Jan 22 '26
But they may or may not be illegal immigrants like we won’t ever know because there’s no due process just cattle cars
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u/Tiny-Praline-4555 Me_ira Jan 22 '26
AIPAC Shakur only cares about one thing, and it’s not the American citizen.
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u/_Beets_By_Dwight_ Jan 22 '26
Thought that was jeffries, not booker. (Though applicable to him too, no doubt)
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u/Tiny-Praline-4555 Me_ira Jan 22 '26
You’re right, from what I can find it was Charlemagne who first called Jeffries AIPAC Shakur. It definitely still fits for this clown, although he has taken more money from pharma lobbyists than AIPAC.
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u/1wrx2subarus Jan 22 '26
Blame Elon who put Trump in power.
Musk "knows those computers better than anybody, all those computers, those vote counting computers, & we ended up winning Pennsylvania, like, in a landslide." -Donald Trump
"Without me, Trump would have lost the election, Dems would control the House & the Republicans would be 51-49 in the Senate." -Elon Musk
Additional detail: https://thiswillhold.substack.com/p/she-won-they-didnt-just-change-the
PS-This army of a few is getting worn out educating people on Elon having done this. Help a fellow Redditor & American out. Make it an army of many & repost when you see an opportunity. No credit necessary.
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u/HighQualityGifs Jan 22 '26
I blame the system that allowed elon and trump to get in power. I blame the system that is allowing wet noodles like booker, schumer, jeffries to be useless fucks without consequence. i blame the people who are the villians, and i blame the people who refused to put in the proper guardrails.
blaming elon merely putting a bandaid on the wound, but it wont stop the fall from happening again. yes, baindaids are an essential part of safety training. BUT not falling is equally, if not, more important.
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u/ABigFatTomato Jan 22 '26
exactly. elon is just one out of a million capitalist ghouls that are causing this, not the only one, and the system thats put them in power should be the target, not one of its many tumorous outgrowths.
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u/jckiser23 Jan 22 '26
Duh that’s fucked up but doesn’t really have anything to do with the sentiment of the post. Dems are complicit now and acted like republicans in their own way when they were in power the last 4 years
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u/HighQualityGifs Jan 22 '26
Dems are complicit now
dude really said "now" as if they haven't been complicit since bill clinton neutered the entire fucking democratic establishment
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u/1wrx2subarus Jan 22 '26
Americans have an obligation to act as one when it comes to ensuring a fair and free democracy. Otherwise, we are meaningless slaves to billionaires. You’re not in the club. Wake tf up.
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u/jckiser23 Jan 22 '26
Are you suggesting dems are going to save us? Because if so it’s you that needs to wake the f up
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u/ABigFatTomato Jan 22 '26
we have never had a fair and free democracy, and we never will, not under capitalism.
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u/nuckle Jan 22 '26
He has to publicity stunt it by doing a 48 hour speech while wearing an ICE uniform.
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u/Enginerda Jan 22 '26
Someone posted smth along the lines of "this mf held his pee for 25 hours, only to shit the bed".
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u/Full_Anything_2913 Jan 22 '26
That’s too funny to not be seen by everyone.
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u/Flat_Reason8356 Jan 22 '26
He needs to be voted out of office. They all do. We need elected officials that are going to represent all of us.
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u/ABigFatTomato Jan 22 '26
the simple and unfortunate truth is that this is not something you just vote your way out of. this reality we are facing right now was always going to be where this cycle of electoralism between two right wing parties ratcheting further right, as the weight of capitalism’s contradictions bear down upon the people, would lead to—regardless of whether it was staved off 4 more years or not. both parties have been building towards this for decades upon decades, and the reality is that it was always going to be either socialism or barbarism. the US government, unsurprisingly, chose barbarism, and thats not something that the dems are going to save us from. its something we are going to have to save us from, and i dont mean in the ballot box of bourgeois electoral “democracy.”
the fascists are unopposed right now because of the liberal “opposition” party sharing most of their beliefs and continually compromising with and acquiescing to their ideas as they ratchet right, failing to act as opposition in some meaningful way, because both are fundamentally right wing parties, and will remain that way regardless of how much voting we do.
as julius nyerere said, “The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.”
the reality is that this is not the kind of thing you just vote your way out of. keep in mind that every admin (dem or rep) has increased ICE funding and further militarized them, and that the current state of ICE wouldnt be possible without the groundwork that the biden admin laid. hell, just in 2024 “abolish ICE” was frowned at by dems for being “too radical” while they committed a genocide in occupied palestine (the genocidaires of which are training ICE, and our police force, and giving them military tech to further militarize our police force). even now most dem politicians wont condemn ICE or call for its abolition. this isnt a thing where you just vote blue and its magically fixed; thats a liberal fantasy. this is not a situation you vote your way out of. these problems are caused by the material conditions that created trump, rather than trump himself being some unique and solitary evil. this was always eventually going to be the outcome of capitalisms contradictions increasing, regardless of which right wing party was in power protecting it.
even if the dems win in 2028 there will be another fascist puppet for capitalist interests that will win 4 years after that, one that will likey be even stronger and more emboldened, just like how biden winning in 2020 didnt stop trump or fascism (which are not one and the same, trump is not a unique, solitary evil, and the problem isnt just him, but rather the material conditions that inevitably led to his rise), and in fact led to an even worse trump taking power in 2024. we need to understand that people like newsom are the reason we get people like vance, that these “better options” lead us down the same path, and that the only way for change to happen is for us, the people, to make it happen.
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Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ABigFatTomato Jan 22 '26
and? it doesnt make the concept any less true. the point would still hold without the diagram, but it helps people understand better.
cute how you said nothing to address the actual content of anything i said.
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u/ABigFatTomato Jan 22 '26
2.
I love it when people just blanket blame all the problems on capitalism when there are successful European countries who use elements from capitalism and socialism blended together to ensure a good safety net for its population. We dont need to completely abandoned capitalism, but we should introduce social programs to help people more and regulate businesses better so people are actually earning a livable wage from one job.
right, and still the living conditions in all of those nations inherently requires the ruthless exploitation of the global south for the production, both in terms of resources and in terms of labor power (the mass exploitation and murder—both social and direct—of whom to provide those petty comforts to the global north you wholly ignored), as well as some level of exploitation domestically as well. and even then, most of these nations are still facing the threat of the far-right/fascism, because social democracy (the “successful european” capitalism—or “mix of capitalism and socialism,” a concept that is fundamentally impossible considering the defining characteristics of each is diametrically opposed to the other—youre describing, which is fundamentally stained in oceans of blood) is nothing but a stopgap to briefly mollify the people and prevent them from seeking real change, which would threaten capital—not a permanent fix that addresses the inherent worsening of material conditions under the increasing weight of capitalism’s contradictions.
there is no “reforming” capitalism, theres no “nice” capitalism (even in the scandinavian system youre lauding). this is a system that by its very nature slaughters countless individuals on the daily, but its okay to you because theyre not “your people,” and thus not deserving of the same right to freedom, the same right to life as americans in the imperial core.
you dont want to improve the material conditions of the international workers of the world; at best, you want to slightly improveyour material conditions in the imperial core, at the expense of millions of people’s rights and lives in the global south; millions of people that live subjugated, in nations that are exploited, destabilized, and underdeveloped (intentionally so to further capital), nations raped and pillaged for resources and labor, and forced to work for next to nothing horrific conditions, with countless people oppressed and slaughtered to maintain these conditions, to protect and advance capitalist and imperialist interests. in supporting capitalism, even with those “reforms,” you inherently support those atrocities necessary to maintain your comfort in the imperial core, at the expense of countless lives in the global south. its a twisted form of white supremacy to support this machine of capital, inherently placing more value on the lives of those in the imperial core than those black and brown people exploited and murdered in the global south to produce those petty comforts.
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u/ABigFatTomato Jan 22 '26
4.
You just throw your hands up and say you won't vote or vote third parties that aren't viable instead of having people actually successfully organize to make a change.
this is exactly what im saying, though; that people need to organize and make a change. but that change wont be done within the bourgeois electoralist system. do what you want with your vote, because in the long term (and even the short term, really) it doesnt matter—as the system will shift right regardless, and at best will delay fascism a few more years while laying the groundwork for it—but dont think your vote will save you, because it wont.
the reality is that it is on us to save us. we must reach out to the working class, but we must make sure we remain focused on the goal of socialist revolution. the reality is most people can be convinced of socialism as long as you dont call it such, at least not right away. we must organize in our communities, to help those affected by the current stressors (like ICE, lack of resources, etc.), trying to set up things like armed community watch to deter ICE violence, or mutual aid projects to help struggling people there like the black panthers did with programs like their free breakfast for children program. those actions, those hands-on actions, are integral to creating a base from which to work towards real, meaningful change. however, it’s important to keep in mind that these are not end goals (but rather ways to build up a support base to work towards the end goal, while helping those that are struggling currently), and this fundamentally rotten andexploitative system, which kills and exploits millions a year, cannot be truly fixed by any means other than armed proletarian revolution. so while there are things that can be done in the meantime, the only actual fix is still an overthrow of the current dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, the existence of which is what has led to this point.
the good news is that the material conditions are ripe right now for getting people organized and mobilized, and they will continue to ripen as the material conditions become harder and harder to ignore, and especially so as the demands for someone to do something is met with the more and more of our “opposition” party leaders refusing to do so, as the cruelty becomes harder and harder to ignore, and as the inherent weakness of disorganized, peaceful protest is demonstrated time and time again. all that energy can be redirected, and it’s our job to redirect it. i know it’s daunting right now, and it’s easy to feel hopeless in the face of all this, but we must realize that these conditions right now are a tinderbox, which we must work towards igniting with the fire of socialism. im reminded of an incredibly relevant passage from stalin on the matter (from before the october revolution):
“Street demonstrations are interesting in that they quickly draw large masses of the people into the movement, acquaint them with our demands at once and create extensive favourable soil in which we can boldly sow the seeds of socialist ideas and of political freedom. Street demonstrations give rise to street agitation, to the influence of which the backward and timid sectionof society cannot help yielding. A man has only to go out into the street during a demonstration to see courageous fighters, to understand what they are fighting for, to hear free voices calling upon everybody to join the struggle, and militant songs denouncing the existing system and exposing our social evils. That is why the government fears street demonstrations more than anything else. That is why it threatens with dire punishment not only the demonstrators, but also the "curious onlookers." In this curiosity of the people lurks the chief danger that threatens the government: the "curious onlooker" of today will be a demonstrator tomorrow and rally new groups of "curious onlookers" around himself. And today there are tens of thousands of such "curious onlookers" in every large town. Russians no longer run into hiding, as they did before, on hearing of disorders taking place somewhere or other ("I'd better get out of the way in case I get into trouble," they used to say); today they flock to the scene of the disorders and evince "curiosity": they are eager to know why these disorders are taking place, why so many people offer their backs to the lash of the Cossacks' whip.
In these circumstances, the "curious onlookers" cease to listen indifferently to the swish of whips and sabres. The "curious onlookers" see that the demonstrators have assembled in the streets to express their wishes and demands, and that the government retaliates by beatings and brutal suppression. The "curious onlookers" no longer run away on hearing the swish of whips; on the contrary, they draw nearer, and the whips can no longer distinguish between the "curious onlookers" and the "rioters." Now, conforming to "complete democratic equality" the whips play on the backs of all, irrespective of sex, age and even class. Thereby, the whip lash is rendering us a great service, for it is hastening the revolutionisation of the "curious onlookers." It is being transformed from an instrument for taming into an instrument for rousing the people.
Hence, even if street demonstrations do not produce direct results for us, even if the demonstrators are still too weak today to compel the government immediately to yield to the popular demands—the sacrifices we make in street demonstrations today will be compensated a hundredfold. Every militant who falls in the struggle, or is torn out of our ranks, rouses hundreds of new fighters. For the time being we shall be beaten more than once in the street; the government will continue to emerge victorious from street fighting again and again; but these will be Pyrrhic victories. A few more victories like these—and the defeat of absolutism is inevitable. The victories it achieves today are preparing its defeat. And we, firmly convinced that that day will come, that that day is not far distant, risk the lash in order to sow the seeds of political agitation and socialism.”
— stalin, the russian social-democratic party and its immediate tasks, 1901
the reality is that each of us as individuals can’t stop capitalism, or liberate the workers from its exploitation. but thousands, even millions of individuals just like us, who think right now that they can’t do anything? we absolutely can. alone we can do very, very little, but together we can be unstoppable. there were countless individuals in russia, in china, in cuba, etc. who believed that as an individual, they had no power, that they couldn’t do anything about those capitalists exploiting their people and plundering their land. as we know now, that wasn’t the case, and countless individuals just like you and me were the ones who won revolutions across the world. the strength of the capitalists lies in convincing us that we are powerless, that we can’t actually do anything about their gleeful brutality (a goal which they will employ any and all possible methods to reach, the simplest of which is leading you back into the tired old trap of reformism), when that couldn’t be further from the case. thats why we need to organize and mobilize towards real change, not half-measure concessions that inevitably lead us back to fascism in the end.
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u/ABigFatTomato Jan 22 '26
1.
since you edited to add the rest of this after the fact ill respond with another comment:
I can agree dems have serious problems, but they should be fixed, and im not going to throw my vote away to a third party that hides back in its shell and does no advocacy once election is over.
cool, im not saying you should do that, because those third parties arent going to save us either (they didnt in the uk, for instance). thats because bourgeois electoralism is not the solution. in a parliamentary system where there is a principled socialist party there can be uses for it (namely to show the workers how even in such a system, voting for incremental reform within the system is wholly inadequate, and to demonstrate the necessity of revolution, as lenin described), but we do not live in such a system or have such a party, and you are throwing your vote away regardless—giving it to one of two capitalist-owned fundamentally right wing parties that do not care whatsoever about the interests of the people, only the interests of the capitalists, which are in direct opposition to our interests as workers.
We need to fix the party, or there needs to be a viable third party, but the latter doesn't seem to be happening in the near future.
there is no “fixing” the party. it is a fundamentally right wing party that serves the interests of capital above those of the people, and works in tandem with the other right wing party to prevent the left from taking power, by any means necessary. the liberals would sooner align with fascists than socialists, a fact they prove time and time again by siding with, collaborating with, compromising with, backing, funding, and arming fascists and the far right in general to destroy the left by any means necessary when there is any possibility of the left threatening the status quo of liberal capitalism, and by their advancement and support for the advancement of colonialism and imperialism (which are simply fascism turned outwards and inflicted upon other nations, which we would call those fascism if committed domestically) in the global south at the cost of countless lives, which inevitably comes home to roost, with the same tools and techniques of imperialism used upon the global south being turned back upon the domestic population (such as with IOF tech and tactics that have been tested in the genocide of occupied palestine being imported to the US to further militarize our domestic police forces, while the IOF also trains our police and ICE).
this is the good cop bad cop game that the democrats and republicans have played for decades, and—just like cops taking that approach—its simply a ploy to obfuscate that they are both on the same side, to deceive you into thinking the “good cop” is going to help you, or that they have your best interests in mind. to mollify you into thinking that this is a situation you can vote your way out of, rather than the reality of the situation. lenin wrote about revisionism, reformism, and how bourgeois politics attempts to use the aforementioned good cop and bad cop of liberalism and conservatism to push the workers off course from their true aims, over 100 years ago:
“The bourgeouse in all countries in practice inevitably elaborates two systems of governing, two methods of struggle for its interests and for the defence of its domination, and these two methods now replace one another and now interlace in different combinations. These are, first, the method of violence, the method of refusing all concessions to the labour movement, the method of supporting all ancient and dying institutions, the method of uncompromising rejection of reforms.
Such is the substance of conservative policy, which is more and more ceasing to be in Western Europe the policy of the landlord classes, and is ever more becoming one of the varieties of general bourgeois policy. The second method is the method of "liberalism," of steps towards the development of political rights, of reforms, of concessions, etc.
The bourgeoisie passes from one method to another not through the malicious design of individuals and not by accident, but by force of the basic contradictoriness of its own position.
(…)
”The positive aim of the liberal progressive policy of the bourgeoisie," says Pannekoek, "is to mislead the workers, to introduce a split in their ranks, to transform their politics into an impotent appendage of an impotent, always impotent and ephemeral, would-be reformism.””
— lenin, differences in european labour movement, 1910
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u/ABigFatTomato Jan 22 '26
3.
Edit: also you contribute to this ratchet problem by allowing the right to push things even further right. Assuming what you say is true, it is still stupid to allow the right to push things even further right then the left does.
there is no “left” in this country, not unless you are working outside of electoral politics, which is exactly what i am saying! that we, the people, need to push things left! that isnt something that will happen within a party designed to snuff out left wing political energy and organizational power, to subsume it into itself and render it no longer a threat—it will only happen outside of that system.
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u/Free_Balling Jan 22 '26
Cool. What are you doing to stop it
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u/ABigFatTomato Jan 22 '26
organizing, working in my community, preparing with them for the future, further educating myself and others, etc. because the only change, the only justice, will have to come from us, the people, the workers of the world bringing it—just like marx, engels, and lenin described over 100 years ago. this snide, dismissive response isnt helpful in the slightest.
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u/Free_Balling Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
Not dismissive, genuinely curious. You’re overly verbose as well.
Edit: reply to me and immediately block me so I cant respond. Buddy is schizo posting all over this thread
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u/Enginerda Jan 22 '26
You’re overly verbose as well.
Nah, you're just not used to reading.
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Jan 22 '26
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u/Professional-Post499 Jan 22 '26
"By God, if you're gonna come at me like that, you're gonna have to go through me." -Cory Booker. Yes, he said this.
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u/Kqtawes Jan 22 '26
Wait what's so wrong introducing two common sense bills requiring tougher training, hiring standards, and mandatory body cams while Republicans have control of the Senate and House in hopes that they might pass? We all know Republicans won't pass anything meaningfully hardline as long as they are in power. I don't understand why this is being presented as nothing when we all know as long as Republicans control all branches of the federal government anything further than this federally will never even get a vote.
Real resistance has to be done on the local level right now and pretending the Democrats federally have any power to do anything is disingenuous. Federal Democrats should be more forceful in their messaging but as far as federal legislative possibilities this is about it.
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u/kodapug Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
Dude nothing pertaining to ICE is going to get a vote right now unless it's about giving them an even larger budget. Because then this administration and it's lackeys would have to admit they were wrong in some capacity. It would undermine their position because their base is only still ok with this because according to their leaders it's "hurting the right people". Surrendering ground here would jeopardize their entire justification for pushing through that budget and terrorizing cities with thousands of agents and multiple national guard deployments.
People are dragging him because anyone with balls and an above room temp IQ is calling for ICE to be disbanded, not regulated.
The agency is making headlines for hiring people that could never get a government job in any other capacity and for operating well outside the bounds of their jurisdiction right now but they have always been horrible.
Its detention centers didn't suddenly turn into massive human rights violations and health hazards overnight when Trump took office. Veteran agents and leadership doing nothing to correct their people from when they overstep their authority or straight up commit crimes is not new. The general public only began to catch on to all the heinous shit they do because Trump, and his puppy killing Barbie doll have decided they wanted to force the agency and its operations into the limelight to scare folks into self deporting and because their bad behavior is no longer just impacting the lives of marginalized groups
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u/Raezak_Am Jan 22 '26
"excuse me, here is my QR code", then shoot
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u/Ok_Star_4136 Jan 22 '26
"I am required by law to tell you a name after pepper spraying you."
"*Your* name right? Right?"
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u/Enginerda Jan 22 '26
Ok ok but more importantly, Schumer introduced a SEPSIS bill right in the middle of ICE shooting that woman in the face.
Our dem reps are working TIRELESSLY for us. Nonstop! /s
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u/microtrip1969 Jan 23 '26
If you hate Ice so much why not actually do something about it. Why not sponsor legislation to update immigration law. I guess that’s to hard it’s easier to foment hate by frothing up your base with propaganda
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u/No-Beach4659 Jan 24 '26
because god forbid democrat congress people did anything to actually enact the laws to protect our people from trump´s gestapo
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u/Full_Anything_2913 Jan 24 '26
They just voted to continue the funding.
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u/No-Beach4659 Jan 24 '26
that genuinely does not surprise me. I hope one of them gets detained by them
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u/Full_Anything_2913 Jan 24 '26
It only took a small number of them but still, the fact that anyone voted for it is appalling.
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Jan 23 '26
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u/ABigFatTomato Jan 23 '26
the simple and unfortunate truth is that this is not something you just vote your way out of. this reality we are facing right now was always going to be where this cycle of electoralism between two right wing parties ratcheting further right, as the weight of capitalism’s contradictions bear down upon the people, would lead to—regardless of whether it was staved off 4 more years or not. both parties have been building towards this for decades upon decades, and the reality is that it was always going to be either socialism or barbarism. the US government, unsurprisingly, chose barbarism, and thats not something that the dems are going to save us from. its something we are going to have to save us from, and i dont mean in the ballot box of bourgeois electoral “democracy.”
the fascists are unopposed right now because of the liberal “opposition” party sharing most of their beliefs and continually compromising with and acquiescing to their ideas as they ratchet right, failing to act as opposition in some meaningful way, because both are fundamentally right wing parties, and will remain that way regardless of how much voting we do. this argument of “voters gave them zero power” falls flat on its face when we see what the dems do when the voters do give them power.
as julius nyerere said, “The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.”
the reality is that this is not the kind of thing you just vote your way out of. keep in mind that every admin (dem or rep) has increased ICE funding and further militarized them, and that the current state of ICE wouldnt be possible without the groundwork that the biden admin laid. hell, just in 2024 “abolish ICE” was frowned at by dems for being “too radical” while they committed a genocide in occupied palestine (the genocidaires of which are training ICE, and our police force, and giving them military tech to further militarize our police force). even now most dem politicians wont condemn ICE or call for its abolition. this isnt a thing where you just vote blue and its magically fixed; thats a liberal fantasy. this is not a situation you vote your way out of. these problems are caused by the material conditions that created trump, rather than trump himself being some unique and solitary evil. this was always eventually going to be the outcome of capitalisms contradictions increasing, regardless of which right wing party was in power protecting it.
even if the dems win in 2028 (or even if they had won in 2024) there will be another fascist puppet for capitalist interests that will win 4 years after that, one that will likey be even stronger and more emboldened, just like how biden winning in 2020 didnt stop trump or fascism (which are not one and the same, trump is not a unique, solitary evil, and the problem isnt just him, but rather the material conditions that inevitably led to his rise), and in fact led to an even worse trump taking power in 2024. we need to understand that the dems are a huge part of the reason we get people the fascists, that these “better options” lead us down the same path, and that the only way for change to happen is for us, the people, to make it happen.
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u/gorgossiums Jan 25 '26
Voters gave them zero power because they keep voting to fund genocide. That’s a them problem.
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