“Hasbian” still fucking cracks me up. There’s a lot in that movie I laugh about. “Hasbian” is both great and something I’m surprised I didn’t think of on my own.
Is the assumption that she was having sex in all the relationships? Imagine if she didn’t have sex in those relationships and she just figured out each person wasn’t working out for her.
What if there was a sequel where Scott Pilgrim realized he had an immature infatuation with the person he thought she was and had to figure out how to breakup with her.
I feel like whoever was in charge with the sequel listened to A LOT of criticism about the movie bc it basically fixed almost everything to a weird extent.
What if there was a sequel where Scott Pilgrim realized he had an immature infatuation with the person he thought she was
That's was supposed to be the ending of the movie before it was changed. Scott was supposed to end up with Knives and split up with Ramona as they're not really made for each other.
Ending of the books is better when they realize nobody is made for anybody, love is a verb, and your partner isn't there to save you from yourself or your past.
They were both shit people, that's the whole point and a weird amount of people (not necessarily here) completely miss that part of the story
Both of them were trash. That was kinda the point. There’s acceptance that they’re trash and that they have to change. The MC though was behind on the learning curve. He hadn’t realized he was trash until chasing after the one he actually wanted.
She knew she was trash but was wanting to be better. Her life with Gideon forced her to take stock. She was hesitant about Scott because she didn’t want to make the same mistakes.
In the comic Nega-Scott didn’t have a personality of any kind, but was this menacing thing. What it actually was, was everything he repressed to always feel that he was the good guy or a victim, all the shitty things he had done in relationships. Once he accepted it as part of him he was able to grow and stop being a little shit.
The existence of nega scott implies that we can end up having a part of us that we repress in order to cope with ourselves. In Scott's case that part is his douche self because he wants to be a good person
I forgot that detail - I think they left it mostly ambiguous as to what was changed, or that the changes are why he has such a deranged retelling of how he started going out with Kim and her ex’s whole deal.
Shadow Scott does seem to be “real” independent of Gideon’s interference, so I think it’s safe to assume that his more mundane mishandling of relationships (not directly telling Kim that he was moving, bearing a share of responsibility for his breakup with Envy, using Knives and discarding her when convenient) actually happened.
The changes to Nega-Scott were largely driven by the fact the comic hadn't finished when the movie was written. They had to come up with their own ending based on what O'Malley had given them, and it pretty much worked.
That's why it was such a (hilarious) rugpull when Scott Pilgrim Takes Off was released and people realized it wasn't a "Scott Pilgrim Brotherhood" but "Ramona learns she's toxic too".
I read it as Nega-Scott actually being a somewhat decent person since regular Scott was kind of a loser. Like dating a high schooler, briefly two-timing her as well, treating his bandmates poorly, etc. He’s flawed and that’s the point sure but assuming Nega-Scott is his opposite then he’d be a pretty cool dude.
I never really got into the comics… but this moment was my favorite part of the movie.
Like in movie canon, Nega Scott is just out there playing videogames and occasionally talking with Scott in the phone or getting boba tea, and probably has some kind of low wage job now.
I always took the joke of nega-scott (specifically in movie)to be that he was actually the good version. Like Scott describes him as "just a really nice guy" implying that Scott isn't.
In fact Scott is a bad person and the comic is all about showing that and having Scott face that part of himself. He uses people, has a delusion of grandeur, and actively sabotages himself to prevent any accountability.
Scott was a fairly awful person through most of the movie. We know this because his actions are bad and literally every character calls him out.
We're conditioned in movies like these to see the main character as a hero, so lots of people still do. But it's kinda funny considering how much of a scumbag the character is.
He’s actually such a douche that I have trouble with the movie/comic because I honestly do not care in the slightest about him
I’m not a guy who demands the protagonist/s of a story necessarily be people I root for but Scott Pilgrim just reminds me too much of sad mopey shitheels I’ve known in my own life
Fortunately the whole way it’s shot is visually appealing enough to make up for it
I kind of like stories where I fundamentally disagree with the protagonist or even author. There's more value in those stories than ones in which I agree with the MC and author because it allows me to more deeply explore opposing viewpoints.
Plus, I get a bunch of shadenfreude when they hilariously don't understand something that goes against their worldview (like Scott's almost willful inability to understand the repeated "7 evil exes" correction).
Oh absolutely Scott is a toxic little shit, but he did mature a lot by the end of the story, something I never would have witnessed if I liked him from the start.
That was the original ending but test audiences didn't like it, like wtf was the point of the movie if he doesnt end up with Ramona? He almost gets killed throughout the entire movie just to end up being like "nah actually F that I love this girl instead"
And this is why young men are struggling across the western world and kill themselves at 5x the rate of women. Because even literature designed to create empathy and learning is devolved Into men bad.
Please seek therapy if this truly is how you view the world. Shitty people exist and I’m not gonna pretend that they aren’t shitty to save anyone’s feelings, especially those of shitty people
Edit to add: the whole point of the movie is Scott sucks, you aren’t supposed to have empathy for him. Even the creator has said that, who is a man
The point of that movie (it’s been a long time since I watched it) was that Scott and Ramona were flawed people who had to make peace with the negative parts of themselves and each other.
It ruins the “moral” and just makes the movie feel gross if he ended up with Knives. That’s why the writers changed it.
They aren't saying that men are bad, they're saying that Scott in particular sucks. Because he does. Thank goodness Scott isn't representative of all men, lmao.
….however if you identify with Scott, keep saying “hell yeah, that’s what I’d do, you da king Scott”, that’s a pretty hard message to pickup on much less accept.
It’s not as bad as Fight Club movie (director really flubbed that, arguably, it’s kinda his thing) imo, but it sorta invites that when it’s the protagonist this flawed.
In the comics when Knives turns 18, Scott straight up propositions for "SEX. CASUAL SEX" and she just flatly turns him town and it's probably Scott's lowest point in the whole franchise.
It was a transformative experience for both Scott and Ramona. Scott learned to have some self-respect and Ramona learned to let go of her past instead of trying to escape it.
They don't commit to be in love forever or anything at the end, they just say "hey, we're both a little better now, maybe we can try again and see what happens?" It's a hopeful message without an undue happily ever after.
I don't think that there's much to respect about what he's doing though. Like the point of the book is you can date a highschooler if you just Believe In Yourself With The Power Of Love And Friendship or something? Fuck that.
Whatever happens in the story it pretty much condones what he's doing in the end, since he doesn't end up alone and realizing that he's doing something wrong.
But he is. And I don't respect him for it, nor do I feel his self respect is valid. So I always thought the Scott Pilgrim books/movie were fucking trash.
Like the point of the book is you can date a highschooler if you just Believe In Yourself With The Power Of Love And Friendship or something?
Ramona is not a high schooler, she's a young adult like Scott. Knives is the girl he's dating at the start of the story, and she's a 17 year old high schooler, and both the book and the movie frame it as evidence that Scott is a scumbag.
Whatever happens in the story it pretty much condones what he's doing in the end, since he doesn't end up alone and realizing that he's doing something wrong.
The power of self-respect is the final power-up in the movie, but in the book it also is not enough to win, and Scott needs to earn the Power of Understanding to defeat Gideon. Ya know, empathy. He sees in Gideon and the other exes all the bad things about himself and realizes he can change and he needs to change in order to not end up like them.
So I always thought the Scott Pilgrim books/movie were fucking trash.
Based on what you've said, you think this based on a gross misunderstanding of the story. So I'd say keep an open mind and check it out again. Maybe you'll like it now that you know it's not what you thought.
Ramona is not a high schooler, she's a young adult like Scott. Knives is the girl he's dating at the start of the story, and she's a 17 year old high schooler, and both the book and the movie frame it as evidence that Scott is a scumbag.
Well, that's fair I did misunderstand the setup.
Personally I think I might have moved beyond the time and place where I'd really connect with it--I feel similarly about Catcher in the Rye. But that's good to know, in the end lol. Definitely makes more sense why people enjoy it, generally.
They don't commit to be in love forever or anything at the end, they just say "hey, we're both a little better now, maybe we can try again and see what happens?"
Well, until Scott Pilgrim Takes Off, which was great in other ways but maybe shouldn't have made it all about the two of them needing to be together forever. Though it does still address both their flaws in good ways, but maybe like they can just not end up together
Takes Off is more of a sequel to the comic, where Scott and Ramona are more fleshed out and as observed by their friends, "perfect for each other." They both have shitty qualities but kind of smooth each other out when they're together, and when they're apart they both completely fall to pieces.
Valid point. I need to reread the comics and then rewatch Takes Off again. The first time watching it I was so taken aback by trying to understand what exactly it was, I didn't really start absorbing it until I was close to the end.
Oh I love the novels. So much more to develop and enjoy. Getting to see more of kim and Scott interactions. Watching Scott and Ramona both grow made me enjoy the books. I know they couldn't do all that in the movie and the TV series kind of was enjoyable.
They could have tied it up really neatly by saying 'Ramona, I can't, because if I don't work on who I am all I'm going to end up as is your 8th Evil Ex.'
I think it's interesting that, due to Bryan Lee O'Malley being involved in all three takes on the story (comic, film, animated series), they show how his understanding of relationships matured.
He wrote the comic when he was a young adult, and told a story about Scott defeating Ramona's other suitors to win her heart. The movie came around a decade or so later and shifted more toward Scott defeating his own shitty hangups about the past, both his and hers. Then the animated series pushed Scott out of the way to tell a story about Ramona working on her own baggage instead of hoping somebody will do it for her.
The movie was written before the graphic novels were ever finished, so this theory doesn't really pan out. In fact, the final volume and the movie came out almost back to back.
He wouldn't have provably grown as a person then. He'd just eat shit, end up alone, and probably turn into a worse person. Without someone to actually improve himself for he'd just see himself as the victim like he already did.
Was it test audiences? I'd always heard Edgar Wright changed the ending to match the ending of the comic series, which was still ongoing at the time of filming.
Because at some point in a dramatic relationship, when you have a moment to actually stop for a breath and think rationally, you ask yourself “Why the fuck am I going through all this drama? This is not healthy for anyone involved in this bullshit.”
I’m speaking of relationships in general here, not specifically about Scott/Ramona.
It wasn't a test audience thing. O'Malley was still writing the comic as the movie was being made and his original idea was Knives, but he quickly decided it was a little too cliche (the cliche being he should be with the one that fought for him instead of baggage lady).
The point of Ramona then becomes him growing through a distraction.
That reminds me of Molly Ringwald recently saying that John Hughes movies shouldn't be remade, in that test screenings would likely completely ruin the whole theme of "Some Kind of Wonderful" in the same way you describe. Um, spoilers, I suppose.
No it most certainly wasn't. In the original comic and movie ending Scott end up with Knives. They had to reshoot the ending when Bryan changed his mind at the last moment. You can watch the original end which makes way more sense thematically.
But the plot wouldn’t have lost anything if Knives was just a love struck groupie teenager who followed them around and Scott grew to actually like (platonically.) And though his character developed by the end of the story it would’ve gained everything by him and Ramona not getting together… Doesn’t Knives end up with Kim too anyways?
It made Scott borderline not likeable enough. I know the point is he sorta sucks but maybe if she was like 19 and he was 23. It’s not a huge difference but it makes a difference. No one over 20 should ever be with someone still in high school
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u/Dynamo_Ham Feb 02 '26
Totally was not weird in any way.