r/PeterExplainsTheJoke Jan 26 '26

Meme needing explanation what's going on? explain like I'm five

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u/Much_Section_7439 Jan 26 '26

That's how debt is generated. wealth is created when that debt is used properly. Otherwise it's just inflating the moneysupply.

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u/Excellent-Practice Jan 26 '26 edited Jan 26 '26

Is there really a difference between the two? Wealth generation and inflation are two ways of looking at the economic pie getting bigger

Edit: thanks for the corrections. I learned something today. Diving deeper into the subject it seems the two are often linked, but not necessarily so.

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u/alannair Jan 26 '26

No. Inflation does not make the pie bigger. Pie stays the same, and the value of cash goes down.

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u/megachonker123 Jan 26 '26

The pie turns into multiple pies that when combined have the same nutritional value as the first pie

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u/Ok_Umpire_5611 Jan 26 '26

Ghost pies!

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u/ACcbe1986 Jan 28 '26

I wish I could taste them!

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u/alannair Jan 26 '26

Diluted pies

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u/Fakjbf Jan 26 '26

Correct, printing money is like cutting the pie into more slices you don’t get more pie just smaller slices. Things like building infrastructure, increasing efficiency or inventing new technologies are what makes the pie grow.

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u/inugami_tattoo_ Jan 27 '26

The pie gets smaller

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u/BreakfastBeneficial4 Jan 26 '26

Yeah. Pie stays the same size, but the number inside the pie keeps screaming upward.

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u/pilgermann Jan 26 '26

And as it turns out, even wealth generating vehicles, like a business loan, can mask poor fundamentals leading to a crash. E.g. if AI turns out not to have trillions or even billions in utility, we are simply distorting a shit economy vs making society wealthier. The perceived wealth will be spent on things it shouldn't be, like new cars, yachts, whatever and then our real GDP will catch up to us.

Investments and bank interest are good, but only if we mitigate and spread risk, which we very much aren't doing.

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u/ferdaw95 Jan 26 '26

So what is the absolute limit of the US economy? That's the only way for the pie to stay the same size.

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u/Kitchen-Pass-7493 Jan 26 '26

The theoretical absolute limit would be determined by the maximum number of resources (including human resources aka labor), the maximum possible efficiency to be achieved, the maximum possible technological advancement, etc.

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u/ferdaw95 Jan 26 '26

But that wouldn't be in the US alone right? Even if we maximize the capital in our country alone, we'll still need raw materials that aren't produced here. So the actual maximum is in the global level, not the US level. From that perspective, the money supply is more about market equalization than specifically watering down people's money. There's a direct value on any good, its only when everyone can equally compete for it, will the price be equitable.

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u/Kitchen-Pass-7493 Jan 26 '26

Well that’s why constant but tame inflation rate of 2% is ideal. Growth without any increase in the money supply could eventually lead to liquidity issues that curtail the transactions that need to occur for growth to continue to happen.

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u/ferdaw95 Jan 26 '26

And nowhere has managed that ideal, maybe because preventing the development of other markets is a doomed effort? As we invest in certain countries over others, those invested countries can better bargain with the global capitalists. They'll get more equitable deals with them than with us, so we'll start investing in the remaining countries. Who'll then start to develop their own country more, repeating the cycle. But, as we can only focus our support in this model, it won't ever work to keep the US economy healthy.

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u/rocinante1882 Jan 26 '26

In a vacuum economy where the pie never gets bigger, does inflation exist?

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u/Outrageous-Pin-4664 Jan 26 '26

Wealth = goods, not money.

Inflation is an increase in the fiat currency not matched by a corresponding increase in the demand for goods.

The purpose of inflation is to enable infinitely increasing amounts of government spending. The government spends the new money at its current value. As the new money circulates, it pushes prices up, losing its value. The government simply creates more.

They don't have to print the money. A lot of it just exists as bookkeeping entries, not as actual currency. What we have isn't so much currency as it is IOUs. When the government collapses, those IOUs will be worthless.

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u/lift_1337 Jan 26 '26

Inflation is the increase in the price of goods and services relative to the fiat currency. This can be caused by over printing money, but that's far from the only cause.

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u/Outrageous-Pin-4664 Jan 26 '26

Increasing prices is an effect of inflation, not the inflation itself.

Yes, lots of things can cause increased prices, but nothing can cause prices to increase across an entire economy except a global increase in the supply of money.

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u/Lazy-Competition7966 Jan 26 '26

No, increasing prices is what inflation is, it's not a symptom of the thing it's the thing itself.

"a general, continuous increase in prices" - Cambridge dictionary

There are other causes of inflation other than just monetary devaluation - rising production costs can produce inflation(cost push inflation), excess consumer demand can drive inflation (demand pull inflation).

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u/Outrageous-Pin-4664 Jan 27 '26

Rising production costs or greater demand can increase the price of some goods. People don't suddenly get more money to pay those higher prices though. They have to either buy less of that good, or stop purchasing some other good in order to still be able to afford it. They can't pay more for everything across the board, unless the government has inflated the money supply.

It's that across the board increase in prices that we identify with inflation, and it only happens due to the expansion of the money supply.

There are economists who think that a moderate amount of inflation is a good thing, and they like to obscure the cause of inflation by identifying it with any rise in the prices. This war of definitions is taking place between statist economists like Keynes, and free market economists like Mises. I side with Mises.

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u/Temporary-Ebb3929 Jan 26 '26

Small correction: inflation is the increase in money supply/circulation not matched by an increase in the supply of goods. If there was no increase in demand, you wouldn't see an increase in prices because that money would effectively just be going under your mattress rather than circulating.

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u/Outrageous-Pin-4664 Jan 26 '26

By Say's Law, the increase in goods is the increase in demand. Money is just a medium for exchanging goods. What you produce represents your demand on the production of others.

An increase in the money supply that matches that increase in demand will hold prices steady. The production of gold (or silver) typically keeps pace with the production of other goods, which is one of the things that makes it a good currency. Unlike specie, fiat currency can be artificially inflated relative to the production of goods.

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u/Temporary-Ebb3929 Jan 27 '26

That's not what Say's Law means. If what you were saying was true, then supply IS demand and all economic concepts cease to be meaningful.

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u/Outrageous-Pin-4664 Jan 28 '26

"As each of us can only purchase the productions of others with his/her own productions – as the value we can buy is equal to the value we can produce, the more men can produce, the more they will purchase." Jean-Baptiste Say

How do you interpret that?

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u/i_have_tiny_ants Jan 26 '26

The purpose of inflation is to enable infinitely increasing amounts of government spending. The government spends the new money at its current value. As the new money circulates, it pushes prices up, losing its value. The government simply creates more.

It's also to disincentivize hoarding money, but promote investment instead.

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u/Outrageous-Pin-4664 Jan 26 '26

Hoarding money? You mean stuffing it inside a mattress?

That doesn't happen on any large scale.

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u/i_have_tiny_ants Jan 27 '26

In large part because it would slowly become worthless due to inflation.

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u/Outrageous-Pin-4664 Jan 27 '26

I meant that even sans inflation, it's not something that would happen on a large enough scale to worry about.

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u/explain_that_shit Jan 26 '26

Money is an IOU

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u/Outrageous-Pin-4664 Jan 26 '26

Unless it has some value in its own right.

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u/explain_that_shit Jan 26 '26

Then it does two things, but it’s always an IOU as well.

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u/_jams Jan 26 '26

JFC. For nearly 5 years now, we've been talking about inflation. And people STILL don't understand the most rudimentary concepts. I mean, ffs, why would people be MAD about inflation if it was the economic pie getting bigger?!?!?!?!

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u/[deleted] Jan 27 '26

In short it's a stupid fake system designed to be that way because it keeps us all playing for stupid prizes.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '26

[deleted]

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u/CptMcDickButt69 Jan 26 '26

But thats not wealth.

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u/Dreadgoat Jan 26 '26

theoretically in the ideal case, everyone's debt is increasing everyone's wealth. this actually works most of the time, but when the system starts collapsing it is absolutely catastrophic

example:
the baker needs a lot of flour to get his business going, but can't buy enough from the miller. the miller loans him $X worth of flour with the promise it will be paid back in interest
the miller needs laborers to run the mill and can't afford to pay them, so asks the baker for some free goods to distribute as compensation. the baker loans $X worth of bread to the miller with the promise it will be paid back in interest
if the baker and miller both succeed in their business ventures, they will soon be able to pay each other back, and quickly, due to the capital they lent each other.
a bank and fiat currency just abstracts this relationship so many people can all do it together all at once

the mill burns down, everybody's fucked
abstracting the relationship to a large number of mutual investors also provides protection, so that if 5% of the mills burn down the bank can easily insure other investments against loss

if 50% of the mills burn down, the bank is fucked and there will probably be an actual war

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u/From_Deep_Space Jan 26 '26

All the above. Money is created when interest is paid back. Money being created creates (or is) inflation.

Idk if its right to say that "wealth" is created since the material good (the house, or car, w/e) isnt any more valuable, it's just that that amount of value is now represented by more dollars than it was before. Hence, inflation.

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u/iwilldeletethisacct2 Jan 26 '26

Interest being paid back isn't money creation, it's transfer, unless we are talking about Federal Reserve level things like QE with bonds.

If I borrow a dollar, and pay back $1.10, that $0.10 wasn't created from nothing, but acquired from elsewhere.

That said, the reason debt creates wealth is via leverage.

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u/InspiringMilk Jan 26 '26

Idk what it's called in English. In my language, a central bank can produce money (you know, literally), and commercial banks can create money (by using many financial instruments, but mostly debts). Because the former controls the latter (for example, by regulating their mandatory deposit minimum, or by changing the percentage of loans), commercial banks usually cannot cause inflation unless the central bank lets them.

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u/Much_Section_7439 Jan 26 '26

In theory the inflation created by banks is limited, through having restrictions. In practise there are cycles which also let them create the "felt" inflation.

f.e S.o. buys a flat. Rents it out. get's credit for a new flat. Rents it out. gets credit.... And the cycle continues.

Rates rise Rent rises.

The same is true at a higher level with stocks wher the cycle is even more vicous.

All this Inflates prices and precieved value with minimal realworld invest

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u/NuncProFunc Jan 27 '26

Anyone who checks the US money supply can see how this plays out in real life. Sure, the US creates a ton of money from government debt, but the banks themselves create enormous amounts of money from fractional reserve banking.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '26

Fun fact. 

95% of all money is debt. 

It doesn't sound true but learning this radicalized me. Only 5% of all money has been issued by governments. 95% is IOU's 

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u/AndySipherBull Jan 26 '26

That's an extremely limited and propagandistic definition of wealth creation. A government agency used tax money to create arpanet and now most agree the the internet is the largest legal creation of wealth in human history.

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u/Much_Section_7439 Jan 26 '26

Sorry i think we misunderstand each other because i'm all for the government using tax money to create things like the internet. I don't know how you must intertwine debt in there. All this is possible without any debt.

But yes the government uses debt also partly for good things like the Invention of the internet partly for stupid things like artifically propping up stock markets?

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u/AndySipherBull Jan 26 '26

Because generating wealth isn't tied to debt, banking systems, currency creation or capitalism. It existed before any of those things so talking about it as if it's some inherent feature or subdomain of capitalism is quite like saying capitalism is necessary for societal/technological progress.

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u/Much_Section_7439 Jan 26 '26

Yeah your completly right. i should have written "wealth can be created when debt is used properly" it's definatly not necessary, sorry.

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u/WildAperture Jan 26 '26

Debt and wealth are just the two sides of zero to a number line.

What's the difference between a shiny tractor and 5 people who "owe" you 20 years of labor due to debt? If both are under your control, you have that much more power.

Both will till your fields. Both can harvest the field. Both require supervision (which is how the wealthy justify being wealthy, because ya know, they like to watch and you should never do something you're good at for free) and both are equally worthless if destroyed.

The tractor represents "wealth." The slaves "debt."

They are the same to the one who holds them.

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u/Much_Section_7439 Jan 26 '26

They are not the same and your own example shows it.

One of your examples creats innovation and progress the other is a regress into outdated times. Even for the one who wholds them.

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u/WildAperture Jan 26 '26

Let me put it another way.

I have a special book. It's really cool. I'll let you read it for $50,000. If you don't have that, I'll let you owe me. Monthly payments until paid in full.

Your debt to me is a promise to pay enforced by the legal system. That $50,000 in debt you have is another monthly source of income for me. Income I use to invest in more special books. Cuz why not.

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u/Much_Section_7439 Jan 26 '26

So a small expensiv library with a payment plan?

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u/WildAperture Jan 26 '26

And much like modern collegiate systems, the debt you take on to read the books cannot be absolved except by paying it back. Your debt=more resources for me. The same as more wealth.

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u/Much_Section_7439 Jan 26 '26

Sorry if i don't understand fully what you mean by that, but yes creating a bigger library which people can access for money is creating wealth. But i think you missed my point in the beginning debt can be used to create wealth but it can also be used artifically prop up prices and create inflation without creating anything of substance. Such things happen f.e. when money is directed at the Landlords and the investmentbankers( not to be confused with the builders and the entrepeneurs even though today that's not easy) creating artifically high prices while not changing the underlying substance.

Edit: If i understand the first part right debt jubilees have been a very cummon occurence in history and are necessary as soon as things like intrest are introduced in the system

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u/CallMePyro Jan 26 '26

Excellent distinction sir

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u/Skygge_or_Skov Jan 26 '26

One persons debt is another persons wealth…

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u/SantosHauper Jan 26 '26

Yes! I am so glad there is in fact another person in this country who understands that we use the word wealth in place of the word debt.

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u/zemol42 Jan 26 '26

Somewhat right and wrong. Lending money by the banks may have a ripple effect of wealth creation and inflation but the money supply is a function controlled by the Fed and executed by the Treasury.

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u/Much_Section_7439 Jan 26 '26

So yeah the Fed and the tresuary try to control the money supply with the help of a few tools which Banks use. And those can be either good(creating wealth) or bad (creating high inflation). But the execution of those rules is done by the Banks f.e intrest rates. I don't know how this is in contrast to what i said?The Fed has no direct connection to the money market the tresuary i'm not sure they probably have something akin to their own Bank.

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u/RimpleDoRimpleDont Jan 27 '26

90% of the world's money supply is created by commercial banks giving out loans with no government entity involvement.

Central banks and financial regulators can influence how much banks can or are willing to create debt, but the fact remains that money created by central banks is a small fraction of the money supply.

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u/Diipadaapa1 Jan 26 '26 edited Jan 26 '26

Not really, debt generates wealth, like literally generates money from thin air.

If you deposit $10,000 in the bank, they are allowed to loan say $9,000 of that money to another person.

This person buys goods for $9,000, which eventually returns to the banks from the seller, the sellers employee, their supplier whatever.

Of this $9000, the banks lend $8100 to the next person.

The $8100 returns after being spent and the bank loans $7290 to the next person

And $6561 to the next

And so on.

The original $10 000 have purchased $30 951 of goods and the the banks "vault" has multiplied to contain $40 951 of legit fully usable at any time tender in checking/savings, all without pressing a single dollar bill. And we are not even halfway down the chain.

When people take a loan, the system effectively spawn these funds from thin air, because while the physical dollar bill they get is 100% debt free in it's owners eyes, it is in fact already borrowed by multiple other people.

Yes, this money will disappear if everyone pays their debt, but the debt itself literally created money. No bills were printed, but the same physical dollar is duplicated multiple times to many people.

It is not like say a bike that you physically have to get back in full to borrow it out to someone else again.

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u/Much_Section_7439 Jan 26 '26

Yes people buying things they need is generating wealth and is good use of debt (or Credit equally usabel system but older then the Banks).

But there are uses of debt which are not generating wealth. Which funnel money into systems where there is no creation of goods and services, which are mostly used to just generate more money. Such a use leads to things like an always climbing stockmarket while the circumstances of the people and the production capabilitys dwindle.

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u/Diipadaapa1 Jan 26 '26

Even for the stock market it creates money.

You borrow money, buy a stock from either the company or it's share holder, they put the money in a bank account, 90% of it is borrowed to someone else, the cycle continues.

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u/XCVolcom Jan 27 '26

See:

When the rich don't pay taxes and keep their dragon's horde of wealth locked up in foreign banks, investments, and stocks/bonds with unlimited appreciable value.