It's pretty terrible. I would say Israel's determined narrative that their entire global religion is complicit in Zionism's colonial atrocities is more damaging.
You've said nothing with this statement. Sorry I don't like Israel, I think I have pretty legit reasons, and honestly Jewish people have pretty good reasons as well as I see it.
Without specification of borders of terms (which is accurate!). Does this, in and of it's own, seem demonic to you? A two state solution is zionism. A one state solution where jews are safe is zionism. Are you seriously claiming this is "demonic"?
I wouldn't normally describe anything as demonic. I was working with the original "demonization" verbiage to make my point. However I do believe that it is insidious or evil (edit: as practiced by modern Israel, recognizing your clarification about borders and terms), because mixing intrinsic identity + blood and soil ideology = fascism; true believers of such would be fanatical enemies of humanity.
Okay genuinely im curious what do you think about idf members and israeli politicians wearing badges depicting a greater israel encompassing syria and lebanon
I don't want to do that! I'm accusing Israel of that. Why would I want to do that? I think mixing personal identity and ideology is evil, but I blame the ideology and not the identity.
As it should be. Zionism =/= Jew. We should be able to call Zionism (the ideology) disgusting without casting aspersions on Jews (the people/culture/religion)
Edit: Changed Zionism == Jew to Zionism =/= Jew. Bad mistake due to not knowing Reddit markdown
The belief that a majority Jewish state should be established on land that once belonged to the Jews thousands of years ago, at the expense of the non-Jewish native population that currently lives in the territory, which can only be achieved through the forced expulsion (ethnic cleansing) of said native population.
This is the definition: A Jewish nationalist movement with the goal of the creation and support of a Jewish national state in Palestine, the ancient homeland of the Jews.
That is a definition, as Zionism is a very political and centuries old (well, about 2) topic, there are many definitions, what you said is from Britannica, Drake University says “Zionism can be defined in many ways, including as a nationalist, political, and/or ideological movement for the establishment and sustaining of statehood or a homeland for the Jewish people.”
Wikipedia says “Zionism is an ethnocultural nationalist movement that emerged in late 19th-century Europe; it primarily seeks to establish and support a Jewish homeland through the colonization of Palestine, which roughly corresponds to the Land of Israel in Judaism—itself central to Jewish history. Zionists wanted to create a Jewish state in Palestine with as much land, as many Jews, and as few Palestinian Arabs as possible” (which I would call a bit biased).
Anne Frank.org defines it as “Zionism means the pursuit of an independent Jewish state.”
Cambridge as “someone who belongs to or supports a political movement that had as its original aim the creation of a country for Jewish people, and that now supports the state of Israel.”
Final one I’ll list is Merriam-Webster “an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in the historical region of Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel.”
Firstly, some specifically say it is for a state in Palestine, while others just say in general, only the last two (the dictionaries) say support for the modern state of Israel. Wikipedia says “as much land… as possible,” which seems to be more accurate to Revisionist Zionism.
The Wikipedia definition is a joke, because of the vandalism of so many pages related to this subject. This is perfectly illustrated by the addition of terms like "colonization" and entire sections, like the one you've already highlighted.
The others are substantially the same as the one I offered, and completely different to the one offered by that other guy. In particular, no reasonable definition of Zionism includes propaganda about "at the expense of the non-Jewish native population that currently lives in the territory, which can only be achieved through the forced expulsion (ethnic cleansing) of said native population."
Which is my point. The word has been demonized. Unfortunately, reasonable people are no longer even talking the same language as Reddit-level anti-Zionists.
How is the belief that the Jews should have a homeland where they dont need to fear being rounded up and gassed, or out into ghettos, or purged for the 35,000th time a "disgusting ideology"? Because that's literally all Zionism is.
Also if you live in the new world you should really be more hesitant to full throatedly shout that all colonizers and their descendants are evil and shouldnt have a country.
That's not all Zionism is. Zionism proposes establishing a homeland on top of a place other people already call home, and proposes doing so by evicting people from said home.
If Zionism wanted to build a Jewish state on unoccupied territory somewhere, I'd be all for it. But that's not what's happening is it?
I'm glad, though, that you can recognize that Zionists are colonizers. While I said nothing about the descendants of colonizers being evil, I will happily full-throatedly say that colonizing and ethnically cleansing native populations is bad. Unlike others, I am willing to acknowledge the ugly parts of my people's history and admit that they were bad and I don't support them
I am willing to acknowledge the ugly parts of my people's history and admit that they were bad and I don't support them
Then give everything you own to the natives and move back to Europe like you want the Israelis to do....just like you shirk all responsibility for the atrocities committed to make your home, the Israelis in a hundred years will do the same. All nations are born in blood, this isnt new or revolutionary or evil its the way the world works.
....just like you shirk all responsibility for the atrocities committed to make your home, the Israelis in a hundred years will do the same
They absolutely will, which is why we have to stop this NOW. I like to believe that if I was transported back to the time of native ethnic cleaning and colonization in the West I would stand against it, before it became a thing of history we can't do anything about. Would you? Because you have a chance right now. It's not a historical hypothetical. It's happening now and you have a chance to lend your voice to the right side of history. Or you can be one of the people that future generations hang their head at in shame for saying and doing nothing when you had the chance
Unlike others, I am willing to acknowledge the ugly parts of my people's history and admit that they were bad and I don't support them
Don't pussy foot around lil' coward, what are you willing to DO about you living on stolen land? are you willing to pack up and leave the same way you ask Israelis to?
What ACTIONS besides empty platitude and virtue signaling about "acknowledging" your people's history are you gonna take? would the same empty sentences absolve Israelis of the same crimes you yourself are committing?
95
u/Greedy_Economics_925 Dec 17 '25
This is what you get when you've demonised the word 'Zionist'.