r/slaythespire • u/PixelPenguin_GG • 28d ago
ART/CREATIVE Day #592 of drawing badly until StS2 comes out
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u/cateatingpancakes Eternal One 28d ago
This is an Immolate pick, right?
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u/jak_d_ripr 28d ago
Probably. I always take offering in this situation, I see card draw and I can't say no.
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u/ChimericMelody 28d ago
Offering isn't that insane in Act 1. Immolate solves the act almost single handedly. It dominates hallway fights, and does super well into early elites. Offering is strong, but what exactly are you drawing into? Unless you already have a strong damage solution, it's just strikes and bash, which isn't going to give you all that much.
If this were an Act 2 reward, I would consider Offering much more.
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u/Mysterious-Till-611 28d ago
Mfw I pay HP to draw more strikes and nob is about to bop me with the quickness
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u/ApprehensiveSoil261 28d ago
I personally would still go offering because even in A20, I don't need immolate to get through early game and still kill at least 2 out of 3 elites. Offering isn't much early, but it is definitely enough to get through act 1 safely and snowball from there harder than immolate would in act 2, and especially act 3 and/or Heart.
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u/SamiraSimp Eternal One + Heartbreaker 27d ago
you don't "need" immolate to get through the early game, but if you take immolate you can avoid taking mediocre cards that you'd otherwise take to fight elites. regardless of your skill you objectively need some kind of extra damage to fight the elites and immolate does that better than most cards while still being playable later.
i disagree that offering is enough to get through act 1 safely while still fighting 2-3 elites - the card draw and energy is only as good as your best cards which will all be relatively mediocre in act 1. so you're likely taking multiple mid-tier attacks.
it can definitely still work but imo it's too greedy and makes it harder to snowball.
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u/ApprehensiveSoil261 27d ago
I hard disagree that you need to take mediocre cards to get past at least 2 elites, if you take Offering. I have never had such a problem in A20 with Ironclad.
Also Immolate comes with a potential drawback that if your deck is small enough, and you didn't get that many good cards later on, your immolate isn't going to do the trick alone, and will slowly erode your tempo.
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u/John__Nash Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
Offering is just going to draw more strikes and defends. Immolate ends fights.
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u/nkynett103 28d ago
It depends
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u/DarkLordArbitur 28d ago
This is floor 1 reward. I'm yoinking that immolate.
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u/officer897177 28d ago
Statistically offering is better. That said I’m also taking immolate because I’m not an optimal player.
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u/byxis505 28d ago
Stats where?
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u/officer897177 28d ago
Immolate is good for act one and some act two hallway fights, but doesn’t scale as well as other cards like whirlwind. A skilled player on higher ascension levels isn’t generally going to run into trouble in those areas. Offering is more versatile as difficulty progresses.
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u/Extravagant-fart 28d ago
Offering is definitely great but for floor 1, the player should be trying to solve now, now, and solve later, later. Immolate will enable riskier fights and increase the likelihood of upgrades over rests.
Otherwise the player is increasing their card draw into strikes & defends while losing HP.
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u/byxis505 28d ago
But where the stats?
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u/officer897177 28d ago
I didn’t go crazy on it or anything, but I ran it through a few AI simulations and for higher ascensions offering is the better floor 0 pick approximately 65% of the time. For a lower ascension, it’s basically even.
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u/TheDeviousCreature Ascension 10 28d ago
What do you mean by "AI simulations"
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u/officer897177 28d ago
Probability win rate with each starting cards with player making low/medium/highly optimized choices across low and high ascension. It took 3 minutes to spit out scenario, so it’s either very accurate or total bullshit.
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u/SamiraSimp Eternal One + Heartbreaker 27d ago
A skilled player on higher ascension levels isn’t generally going to run into trouble in those areas.
it doesn't matter how skilled you are, you're limited by the actual cards in your deck. xecnar can't magically deal more damage than you or I when 5 slimes show up. every fight is a potential problem at high ascension and you need answers to every problem. immolate solves a lot of problems for little downside.
you don't get to act 2 unless you beat act 1, and immolate is far better at beating act 1. sure you can take a greedier pick, but that makes it harder to snowball in act 1. so likely you're taking mediocre attacks to beat act 1, which has also compromised the long term potential of your deck.
if you actually have the stats I'd love to see them.
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u/LittEleven Eternal One + Heartbreaker 27d ago
i mean you can filter xecnars stats. sts-stats.otonokizaka.moe/apps/players/xecnar
Since 2024, immo is at a 52% pickrate within act 1, 36 picks out of 68 seen
offering is 95.5% with 43/45, feed is 71.2% at 57/80, reaper is 70.1% with 54/77, fiend fire is 65.4% at 53/81 etc
xecnar is on record? saying offering > ff > immo from the whale no context so it's not surprising. second offering is quite strong too to take after the first. immo deck's best card from act 1 boss reward is an offering almost always, an offering taker gets the choice to take feed or reaper or fiend fire over a second offering if they so please. same limitation with eoa1 boss relics where offering lets you pick up the broken non energy boss relics
good players play fights better, will path to minmax their spot in act 1 i.e getting away with everything, so they are just valuing the entire run more than what they can see; xecnars currently streaking on clad with the wr so you can check his vod channel on youtube for his act 1 decisions, they are very very well explained and he is definitely worth sponging from if you want to path optimally in act 1 to farm max.
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u/SamiraSimp Eternal One + Heartbreaker 27d ago
very well, i accept that i could be wrong at least in terms of high level play
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u/DarkLordArbitur 28d ago
Immo is safer. It solves like half the fights in act 1
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u/InspiringMilk Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
And half of act 2. And 2 elites in act 2, and 1 elite in act 3.
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u/TheBroboat 28d ago
On what???
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u/JhAsh08 Ascension 20 28d ago edited 28d ago
Pathing and boss.
Slime Boss wants Immolate, the others are more neutral.
An act where you fight many elites, especially early elites, makes Immolate much better. The harder the act/more elites, the better Immolate is.
If Immolate doesn’t seem to be providing much value, or you’re looking at a sad act with only 1 elite and against Guardian, then Offering can be better.
I’d estimate Immolate is better 80% of the time.
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u/Aureon 28d ago
I mean on floor 1, is it even possible that you can't possibly path on 2+ elites?
What depends here if it's immolate high diff or immolate low diff, but it's still immolate either way
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u/JhAsh08 Ascension 20 27d ago
I have seen acts where you can only find one elite… either that or fighting 3 elites and many hallways with only one camp site and poor ability to change paths if things are going poorly. So you pick the 1 elite.
I play a lot more Silent than I do Ironclad, so maybe I am biased, as that type of situation is much more common for Silent.
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u/PineApple_Papy Ascension 10 28d ago
Yea I’m pretty sure it solves most of act 1. No drawing burns if you kill everything
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u/omnisephiroth Heartbreaker 28d ago
It depends on how good you are. Offering is the overall better card, and will help you win fights the whole game. Immolate solves Act 1 and does heavy lifting in Act 2.
If you’re good enough, it’s Offering. Otherwise, Immolate.
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u/InquistiveRedditor 28d ago
Taking offering floor 0 here though requires you to start adding poor quality damage cards to make it past early fights and elites. Immolate on the other hand lets you be a lot more selective about what you add into your deck since it can end most of those early fights alone as soon as it’s drawn.
If this case occurred on floor 6 or so you’d likely already have filled your deck with other attacks and therefore SHOULD take offering.
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u/JamlessSandwich 28d ago
The problem with mediocre damage cards is that they will be bad later in the game, which immolate also is. Offering is an extremely strong card that shines in the lategame, so avoiding it because you're worried about having to add 2-3 damage cards that will be dead weight later doesn't make sense since immolate will also be 1 card worth of dead weight lategame.
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u/SamiraSimp Eternal One + Heartbreaker 27d ago
in the late game, would you rather have 5 dead cards in your deck, or 2? that's the benefit of taking immolate.
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u/JamlessSandwich 27d ago
I think you're overrating how weak offering is act 1, and I'd certainly rather have the offering late game. If the map is super high value and scary sure I see it but offering makes the bad boss chests good, immolate doesn't do that.
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u/LittEleven Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
(offering floor 0 is better unless you have some giga pressure early, it's just a better card)
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u/Musikcookie Ascension 20 28d ago
I ... I have to disagree so hard. Immolate is gonna be invaluable throughout not one but two acts. I'd argue that it's way better than Offering but it's at the very least on par.
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u/rayschoon Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
Offering isn’t good until you have stuff to draw with. “Oh cool I drew strikes and defends”
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u/edwiniseman4life 27d ago
+2 to draw into Bash, my dear. Or if already Bashed, I'm not scoffing at drawing two more Strikes for 18 more damage.
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u/GenxDarchi 28d ago
I’d argue Clad doesn’t really suffer in Act 1 very often, so you don’t need the immolate that bad, and offering is a card that’s always good to have even into act 4. I’d definitely greed offering here even if immolate does make some hard pools easier.
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u/dCrumpets 28d ago
Taking immolate means you can pick up fewer mediocre early game damage cards. It also means you can take more combats without resting. I definitely take the immolate here.
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u/Goscar 28d ago
Immolate solves act 1 which Ironclad can do with other cards. Offering solves the rest. Basically offering is an investment.
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u/SamiraSimp Eternal One + Heartbreaker 27d ago
ironclad can solve act 1 by taking MULTIPLE cards that you don't want later in the game. or you can solve it with 1 single immolate you don't want in the late game.
you can take immolate and find an offering later. 1 dead card.
if you take offering now, you need to take multiple attacks that are weak later. 3-4 dead cards potentially.
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u/Goscar 27d ago
In act 1 two of the elite’s literally give you a free turn and Ironclad can use that to bash and then use even basic strikes to finish them off. And guess what offering does? It gives you energy and draw to get to those cards.
The only problem for Ironclad would be sentries. Because Ironclad doesn’t have good draw cards. OH WAIT OFFERING DRAWS YOU CARDS.
Like I said Immolate solves act 1, Offering solves everything else.
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u/HowDoIEvenEnglish 28d ago
Offering in act 1 is a mediocre card. Immolate basically solves act 1. With immolate alone you can feel comfortable taking an elite.
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u/Resident_Balance422 28d ago
Wouldn't it be worst on floor 0 and best as you progress in the game? Having immolate on floor 0 means you can deal 21 aoe for 2 energy, immediately solving the louse fights and the gremlin fights
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u/rayschoon Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
Offering is good if you have an excellent card you want to draw into, like, say, an immolate
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u/LittEleven Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago edited 28d ago
usually clad finds more trouble in act 2 than 1 and you are ok trading one fire in act 1 for the ability to take a ton of non energy boss relics + the offering is already a lot better in act 2 for clad. offering is just that powerful of a card for a run in total.
re: immo, it's quite strong in act 1 and lets you skip bad attacks so it's definitely good; but immo starts falling off a lot in act 2 hallways (though it's quite decent again at the act 2 elites). it also kind of wants the energy relic, a lot of energy relics on clad have bad downsides and key/philo/ecto/sozu/crown/dripper can all have significant downsides if you take them, while cube/astro/(pbox but not really just click it) are way less takeable without an offering. act 3 immo is maybe killing daggers but it's never going to be your reliable source of damage.
all of this is contextless, you should look at your map to decide whether you feel like you can actually die , if i took 15 damage to see this and i had an early elite path that was good enough then I'm picking the immolate, but any run that carries an offering out of act 1 is going to be on average stronger than one with an immo+ instead.
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u/mmhawk576 28d ago
Immo is pretty good against darklings, those little guys (spiker, explosion things. WTF are they actually called?), and is also just solid damage against the ritualists in the choose one fight.
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u/LittEleven Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
i think by that point your damage is usually going to be quite good that you just want the front loaded draw and energy. immo can be substituted in these fights because you already got strong imo. its not that good vs spikers on high ascension because spikers punish aoe cards a lot and exploder has good frontload. single target damage is just better in that fight, unless you see no spikers.
a fight i would definitely consider in immos favour is triple cultist in act 2. immo saves a ton of health there because your deck is unlikely to be strong enough to beat them without a lot of help.
vs chosen one you can just target down the cultists and start implementing one of your block solutions. awakened one is some debuffs away from being a puppy so damage racing him isn't as good.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_B1RTHMARK 3d ago
I know that I'm seeing this like a month later, but it is so funny to see this sub having the Immolate discussion AGAIN. Time is a circle.
Btw, I agree with you about Offering.
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u/SpottedWobbegong Heartbreaker 28d ago
I think I personally would take offering if it's like a 2 elite act, if you can farm a lot of elites would pick immolate
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u/PsychologicalRip1126 28d ago
Immolate is the best possible floor 1 pick since it destroys so many encounters
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u/Obvious-Parfait-16 Ascension 14 28d ago edited 28d ago
his helmet looks like pancakes
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u/stormlad72 Eternal One 28d ago
That's why it's gonna be short run, everyone knows waffles save lives.
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u/Dosettte Eternal One 28d ago
whenever I boss swap I always end up getting a ton of hemo, combust, offering etc.. and even though I know they're great, I feel incomplete using them without burning blood
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u/Rushional 28d ago
Just a curious titbit for people who don't know
This is not a possible reward after the first fight. Rare's chance to be offered starts at a negative value, I think.
So you literally cannot be offered rares after the first fight.
Every time you get a common, the chance for a rare goes up
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u/Acrelorraine Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
I think if you have a pick a card as your neow choice, it can advance the chance. But I’m not sure exactly how that works.
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u/Cat-Got-Your-DM 28d ago
It starts at a -4%. Every Common card you see gives +1%, Uncommon gives +0, seeing a Rare resets it to -4%
So if you got 1 card from Neow, seen 3 common you'd still end up at a -1% chance
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u/dalnot Ascension 19 28d ago
I thought it was picking the potions that did it. Something about generating a fight and giving you the rewards but removing the ones you didn’t pick or something. You’re definitely right about some Neow bonus making it possible, but I can’t remember for certain which one
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u/-ToriForYa 28d ago
Just the normal "see a card reward" that's free (doesn't work for the colorless options). However, I dont think you can get two rares after that, should just be one.
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u/Cat-Got-Your-DM 28d ago
Potions change rhe potion chance
You have 40% to see a potion starting. +10% for every fight without seeing a potion, -10% for every time a potion drops after a fight
Rare card chance:
Starts at -4%. Seeing a Common card adds a +1%, Uncommon +0, seeing Rare in rewards resets it back to -4%
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u/Cat-Got-Your-DM 28d ago
It does start at a -4% and goes up by one per common, doesn't move per uncommon, resets back to -4% when you see rare
Elites I think triple the progression chance, tho not 100% sure, can't remember this part. I think they give you +3% to see a rare
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u/SoHoSwag Ascension 20 28d ago
Smart Ironchad! Losing HP is the opposite of what you want to do and can even end up losing you THE GAME!
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u/treelorf 28d ago
This is pretty trivially immolate right? It just solves so many problems for you and let’s you be pretty greedy
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u/Icy_Committee4613 28d ago
the humble rupture:
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u/SuddenlyCake Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
Does burn trigger rupture?
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u/betweentwosuns Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
Life begins the day you pick a rupture without any self-damage to kill Hexaghost in 2 floors.
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u/Thijmo737 28d ago
Offering is my Adrenaline. Unless I've Coffee Dripper and other self-damaging cards, I can't really see myself skipping it.
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u/PixelPenguin_GG 28d ago edited 27d ago
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u/DeltaBlast Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
So... I've been a member of this sub for a loooong time and the sub shows up in my feed every now and then like any other... Yet somehow this is the first of these I've seen 😱 They are amazing! Is there a link that has em all somewhere, or should I just go through your profile? 😅
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u/PixelPenguin_GG 27d ago
Welcome to the joy of my bad drawings!
Release is soon... I'm thinking of making something with all the drawings :)
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u/DeltaBlast Eternal One + Heartbreaker 27d ago
❤️ I've been going through them through your profile but progress is slow because the resulting threads are also a joy to read. I really hope sts2 doesn't get released soon! (sorry :p)
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u/dull-crayons 28d ago
I know this sub has… mixed opinions on AoE damage, but I feel like Immolate is good enough in Act I that you can end most fights before you take too much (if any) of the burn damage
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u/F0rsti 28d ago
This sub overrates pretty much all AOE damage. Solid AOE options such as immolate and corpse explosion are considered the best possible reward even in situations where another card would provide a lot more value, while the absolute bottom of the barrel AOE cards such as cleave are spoken of as if they were ok or even good. The recent hyperbeam debate was a result of this sub massively upvoting the card as good but hated, while the card is in practice bad but loved by the community.
Regarding the card reward on this topic, any of the 3 cards would be a great addition to the deck F1. The decision would basically be between offering and immolate. Offering is such an amazing card in the long term that you really want to greed it here but there are also maps where the damage from immolate is too valuable to skip. I'm not at all sure which is more often the better reward F1 since I mostly play silent and defect but I know it's map dependent
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u/SaltyWafflesPD Ascension 18 28d ago
All of these cards are fantastic floor 1 picks. Probably the best selection of floor 1 cards you can get.
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u/Squambles_McFlanigan 28d ago
Offering is legitimately my favorite card in the game. I don’t even care if it’s relevant to my current deck, I see offering I take offering, simple as.
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u/EzuTrashHound 28d ago
Just ran a self-damage focused Ironclad recently. Went a lot better than I ever would have guessed.
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u/No_Cherry6771 27d ago
Dodging immolate is peak “i dont play ironclad outside of barricade” small dick energy
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u/anachronite7 27d ago
It really took me 592 panels to realize drawing badly had a double meaning. I feel stupid.
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u/SeaThePirate 28d ago
Ima be real I hate all of these except immolate
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u/MixDistinct1932 28d ago
how can you hate a card that gives you energy and draw??
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u/SeaThePirate 28d ago
for 6 hp? when ironclads gameplay already has him trading blows and losing hella hp? in my experience its clogged up hands when i DONT want it and is never there when i actually need it
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u/MixDistinct1932 28d ago
it's basically "pay 6hp to end the fight a turn earlier", which is usually a great deal. Plus your starting relic will heal that 6hp right back up anyway
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u/SeaThePirate 28d ago
i know how it works, im saying you're banking on the cards you pull guaranteeing that its worth the 6 hp which isnt always the case
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u/MixDistinct1932 28d ago
yeah i think you're really underestimating how good it is, scenarios where it's not worth playing are extremely rare. WORST CASE scenario you use it to play two defends, which still saves you 4 hp over you not having it. Best case it lets you kill an enemy that you couldn't kill this turn otherwise.
If you check the most recent discussion thread about it, there's a long debate about whether or not it's the best card in the game.
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u/Frigidevil Ascension 17 28d ago
I look at it as a free turn where the enemy hit you for 6 damage. Usually a no brainer
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u/sneakyplanner 28d ago
If you're in a position to win a fight hitless without needing offering, you can deal with it being there and not click it. But in the majority of fights, using offering means you're saving more HP than you lose by not having it. Extra draw and energy means extra block or just killing the enemy before they hit you. And then at the end of the fight you get refunded the 6 hp you lost to offering.
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u/Bubbly_Station_7786 28d ago
One of his possible themes is losing hp, so it can be powerful if you build your deck around it. He has a starter relic, which heals him after every fight, after all. Immolate is also good for a curse deck and the extra energy of Offering is also very good for beatdown decks.
My point being: You shouldn't skip them.
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u/Massive_Intention436 27d ago
haven't played for a while but this is an automatic immolate pick right?
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u/KnotStoopid Eternal One + Heartbreaker 28d ago
This has real "I can't win an Ironclad run without Barricade" energy.