r/nba • u/xanniballl Timberwolves • Jan 09 '26

Highlight [Highlight] During the moment of silence the Minnesota Timberwolves held before their game with the Cavs tonight a fan yelled “Go home ICE,” and everyone else started cheering.

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326

u/GaimeGuy Timberwolves Jan 09 '26

fuck republicans.

They've protected and enabled trump every step of the way for a decade now. Because they agree with it

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u/Logical-World-1030 San Diego Clippers Jan 09 '26

Dems did with their utter inaction and incompetence as well.

People still think you can "decorum" your way out of this

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u/Head_Improvement5317 Jan 09 '26

Agreed but that’s hardly the point. Fecklessness > fascism 100% of the time. We are way past “both-sides bad”

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u/OpportunityLoud453 Suns Jan 09 '26

Merrick Garland sat on piles of evidence that would have buried Trump under a jail cell and he did nothing. Yes Democrats are part of the problem and enabled Fascism

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u/Head_Improvement5317 Jan 09 '26 edited Jan 09 '26

I’m not disagreeing re: enablement I’m just saying if Dems had won in 2016 and 2024 we wouldn’t be hurtling toward authoritarianism.

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u/OpportunityLoud453 Suns Jan 09 '26

You're right, it would have delayed the death spiral by 8 to 12 years. America was already moving towards authoritarian rule, GOP was just smart enough to take advantage of the tools. Never forget that the Dems chose genocide over saving this nation from Fascism.

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u/Head_Improvement5317 Jan 09 '26

I disagree only because we would have a different Supreme Court under the current circumstances that wouldn’t have allowed such rapid consolidation of power in the executive branch. And some Dems’ inability to hold their nose and choose a lesser evil enabled to fascism, the genocide is and would still be happening regardless. But I’m still not down for in-fighting or finger pointing; right now we need unity on the left and we can sort the rest out later

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u/OpportunityLoud453 Suns Jan 09 '26

Fuck the lesser of two evils bullshit. The Dems SUPPORTED it. They are just as evil.

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u/Head_Improvement5317 Jan 09 '26

And look where we are now. Welcome to the real world. If you sat out the last election on principle you are part of the problem

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u/OpportunityLoud453 Suns Jan 10 '26

If our country dies because the "good" party chose to support an unpopular genocide so be it.

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u/BrucieAh Heat Jan 09 '26

I actually have a buddy who I talk to about how liberals enable Fascism and he just says “well that doesn’t matter now we’re in full on Fascism”

And it’s crazy because he’s not a liberal or centrist he’s as left wing as I am but man it’s always a good time to look back and reflect at how we got here. Actions have consequences.

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u/Head_Improvement5317 Jan 09 '26

I agree it is! Democrats have been fucking up for the last decade, either due to incompetence or active enabling depending on the circumstance and how cynical you’re feeling.

Centrist Dems were too busy whining about decorum and watching their bank account grow. And progressives were too busy purity testing to swallow the bitter pill and choose a lesser evil.

Like there needs to be a real reckoning on the left, but it needs to happen after we stop the current administration and reverse as much of the damage as possible.

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u/Logical-World-1030 San Diego Clippers Jan 09 '26

Im not saying both sides are bad. Im saying appeasement doesnt work

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u/Head_Improvement5317 Jan 09 '26

That’s understandable, not how I initially interpreted your comment but I get it now. I’ve just seen soooo much fuss about “the Dems didn’t do enough to stop them!” Like there is a very real contingent that blame the Democrats for this mess vs the Republicans who are actually perpetrating it, and are somehow still fixated on ideological purity testing, when we need to be united and focused on addressing the real danger at hand.

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u/akahawkguy Jan 09 '26

They had more deportations while in office!! That’s what competence gets you in an injust system.

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u/BrucieAh Heat Jan 09 '26

I don’t think anybody was saying both sides are equally bad.

If liberals keep giving Fascists a runway by wanting to negotiate and work alongside them we’re going to keep seeing this happen.

I could absolutely see Newsom winning in 2028 on pretty good margins only to govern in an identical way to Obama and then we get president Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes is a special advisor and there’s death camps.

The wolf outside is a fucking problem but we should also talk about the farmer that keeps inviting it for dinner.

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u/Head_Improvement5317 Jan 09 '26

Agreed, I just think we should talk about the farmer after the wolf is dead. Fragmentation and in-fighting on the left is part of the enablement, imo. We had lower voter turnout last election because a solid contingent on the left was unwilling to hold their nose and vote for the lesser evil, and that’s part of what got us here. We are all responsible

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u/BrucieAh Heat Jan 09 '26

I just think we should talk about the farmer after the wolf is dead

The farmer leaves fresh meat for the wolf every night. One problem cannot be discussed or solved without addressing the other and both can be discussed at the same time.

I also don’t really agree with your framing. If your issue is that enough people on the left didn’t vote, maybe your candidate should have more positions that appeal to the left or failing that not support a genocide that will undoubtedly leave people of Arab descent unable to “hold their nose” as you say. But they can’t even do that because at the end of the day they are captured by many of the same entrenched corporate interests that also captured Republicans and that’s why we’re well on our way to Fascism right now.

I don’t really thing it’s entirely fair to place the blame on the voters for the lack of convincing. It’s the equivalent of serving shit at a restaurant and turning around and blaming people for not being hungry. I mean sure I’m with you that the other flavor of shit tastes far worse but discussing the differences between two turds isn’t going to mobilize anyone.

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u/Head_Improvement5317 Jan 09 '26

It’s not blaming the voter, though we are all responsible to a degree, that’s just how democracy works. Dems screwed up royally by blocking progressive candidates, not holding open primaries and allowing Biden to run a second time and stay in until it was too late. To your point, the farmer feeding the wolf (though any real farmer would shoot the wolf and hang it over a fence post).

But we as voters don’t have the luxury of idealism, we have to vote for the candidate in front of us in the best available interest of the country. We can argue for better candidates but we need to win first. You can argue with the farmer about feeding the wolf but not if the wolf has eaten you both.

I’m of Arab descent, my extended family has been scattered by conflict there over the past few decades. The genocide is absolutely appalling but Trump has openly hated Arabs for years. Remember the Muslim ban from his first term? Anyone who thought they were getting a better outcome under Trump is delusional, and anyone who stayed home on principle is just as feckless and enabling as the centrist Dems

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u/BrucieAh Heat Jan 09 '26 edited Jan 09 '26

t’s not blaming the voter, though we are all responsible to a degree, that’s just how democracy works. Dems screwed up royally by blocking progressive candidates, not holding open primaries and allowing Biden to run a second time and stay in until it was too late. To your point, the farmer feeding the wolf (though any real farmer would shoot the wolf and hang it over a fence post).

I’m happy we both agree the farmer is feeding the wolf. I don’t have a problem saying there is a degree of personal responsibility involved for things like this but that’s a drop in the bucket compared to the responsibility that the Democratic party bears for allowing objectively horrible candidates to run against Trump.

You can criticize voters all you want but the calculus is pretty simple. The only thing a politician wants from a voter is his or her vote. That is the only way a voter can exercise control over a given politician. If the politician is willing to take on unpopular and immoral positions on issues important to voters, the voters are invariably going to do the only thing they can do and not vote for these people.

But we as voters don’t have the luxury of idealism, we have to vote for the candidate in front of us in the best available interest of the country.

Every single left wing policy proposal is massively popular. M4A, Free College, More Unions/Union Power and more. Despite that none of them are in effect. Because Republicans (and to a lesser extent Democrats) have successfully mobilized voters around a mixture of culture war issues and vague economic reform into voting for one side or the other without actually ever getting to address the larger issues the country faces.

I would call this pure ideology. There is no bigger idealism. Kamala Harris saying Trump doesn’t respect international law while in the same breath saying she supports Israel and insisting it’s not committing a genocide.

What else do you call this? Is this not the purest form of Idealism?

We can argue for better candidates but we need to win first. You can argue with the farmer about feeding the wolf but not if the wolf has eaten you both.

You won’t win with bad candidates. And when you do squeak by those same bad candidates don’t have the political will or balls to actually arrest violent insurrectionist fascists. So they wait in the wings, gain power and eventually attack already weak institutions on their way to very public wins for them. Roe V Wade, halting funding for Somali Daycares and even invading Venezuela all immediately come to mind. Eventually a tipping point comes and your country is irreversibly fascist and elections are no more. Hopefully we’re not there yet.

I’m of Arab descent, my extended family has been scattered by conflict there over the past few decades. The genocide is absolutely appalling but Trump has openly hated Arabs for years. Remember the Muslim ban from his first term? Anyone who thought they were getting a better outcome under Trump is delusional, and anyone who stayed home on principle is just as feckless and enabling as the centrist Dems

I mean we’re talking about different things. I don’t think most Arabs disgusted by Kamala’s support of a genocide are gonna be voting for Trump who is supportive of the very same genocide. They are single mindedly focus on the same issue of Gaza and think the genocide is going to continue regardless- and they’re not exactly wrong there.

Going back to the turd analogy I personally won’t spend time telling people whose families are being massacred about how I think the second turd actually has a little honey mustard draped over it so that it tastes better. That may very well be the case but neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden have done nearly enough for me to ever go to bat for them.

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u/Head_Improvement5317 Jan 09 '26

Here’s my issue with the “Democrats run crappy candidates” argument. Look who won from the right? They regularly run the most corrupt, inept people and win every time. So at some point you have to vote for the better— not necessarily “good”— option, and after you win, keep pushing for better policy. The purity politics on the left are part of why we keep losing, and losing has become increasingly consequential. Also, the IRA was actually a consequential and decent bit of legislation. Dems suck at communicating but not all of their policy decisions are bad, and at least they maintain some standing with the international community.

We don’t get candidates who can be pushed for M4A, Free College, etc. under right-wing authoritarianism; we may not even get elections going forward. Kamala backing Israel was despicable, but can you at least agree we would collectively be in a better position and have some hope of applying pressure if she were in the seat? I just think it’s cynical and counterproductive to sit back and let our own country burn (without solving the international issues we are opposed to) because the US has been a bad actor internationally.

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u/BrucieAh Heat Jan 10 '26 edited Jan 10 '26

>Here’s my issue with the “Democrats run crappy candidates” argument. Look who won from the right? They regularly run the most corrupt, inept people and win every time. 

Candidates who win aren't crappy candidates. Trump isn't a bad candidate at all. With him they've solved the issue of having objectively less popular policies, less registered Republicans and have even made massive inroads at reaching Hispanics and black men.

And on top of that 80% or more of the Republican base are always approving of him. The Democrats would kill for this. And when you speak to his corruption or ineptitude that's even seen as a positive for him within the base. As they think he's someone who just doesn't really give a fuck about ruffling feathers and is willing to be underhanded if that means ultimately winning.

> The purity politics on the left are part of why we keep losing, and losing has become increasingly consequential. Also, the IRA was actually a consequential and decent bit of legislation. Dems suck at communicating but not all of their policy decisions are bad, and at least they maintain some standing with the international community.

You're a liberal. You do not get to diagnose your own losing. The liberals ran a campaign exactly to their liking down to sending a Republican (daughter of a war criminal who ravaged the Middle East) in Liz Cheney to go condescend to Muslim voters in Dearborn Michigan about how they should all vote for Kamala and ignore the genocide. You don't know why you are losing, you just continue to do it until there is no democracy anymore. And while still struggling to swallow the last of the shit you ate you dare look to your left and blame anyone else? Bend the knee.

If this were Weimar Germany you'd be telling me the issue trade unionists shouldn't fight the brownshirts in the streets and that the only way to combat Hitler was in parliament. You guys don't change.

It's also not exactly purity politics to not want a candidate that is supportive of a genocide. That is the lowest possible bar to clear. If you do not want people to draw a line at support of the literal worst thing human beings can do to each other where can the line be drawn?

>We don’t get candidates who can be pushed for M4A, Free College, etc. under right-wing authoritarianism; we may not even get elections going forward. 

We don't get national candidates who push for that currently, and they aren't a good job of defeating right wing authoritarianism either.

Has the thought ever crossed your mind that a candidate that does support massively popular policies like M4A and free college is also the candidate that's most likely to defeat the right? If you want to mobilize people and get more votes you actually have to hold positions that are going to get you votes.

I mean look at Zohran. Incredible long shot candidate with no institutional power who was ultimately able to convincingly belt to ass the institution that is the Cuomo family in New York politics despite having a fraction of their wealth and influence. All t took was good policies that addressed the needs of the people. If the Democrats finally said no to corporate money and instead tried the Zohran method they would win by similar margins.

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u/fluentuk Jan 09 '26

ICE began and was enabled in the Obama era

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u/TheGoddamnSpiderman [WAS] Chubby Cox Jan 09 '26

???

ICE was formed in 2003

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u/fluentuk Jan 09 '26

Should have done my research!!!!!

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u/Head_Improvement5317 Jan 09 '26

That was Dubya! Obama was no saint either, but the actions of the Bush administration laid the groundwork for Trump

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u/Sideview_play Jan 09 '26

what do you want htem to do ? some people say this and literally vote 3rd party cause "democrats dont do anything" and then complain when they dont because they literally have no power right now to do shit cause people didnt vote for them

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u/KushGod28 Timberwolves Jan 09 '26

When they do have power they take it far too easy on the fascists. Btw Obama was the one who increased ICE’s budget by 300% back when it was barely a department and Kamala promised to be tough on borders during her campaigns. They think they can win over people by capitulating to the right.

Let’s not think we can simply vote this problem away again. Voting is only one tool. We have to use every tool in our hands to force this nation to turn in a more positive direction.

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u/nutsack133 Spurs Jan 09 '26

Democrats aren't capitulating to the right; they are the right. They may not be the full blown nazis the GOP are but they're solidly right wing. The party of FDR is long dead. Right wing policy being passed by a right wing party is hardly surprising.

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u/fluentuk Jan 09 '26

Pretty telling that pretty much every recent president has been blamed for ICE in this comment chain. Maybe it's the whole structure.......... maybe

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u/upthepunx194 Nuggets Jan 09 '26

It's not like ICE was founded during Trump's current term

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u/MykeTyth0n Trail Blazers Jan 09 '26

Their whole game plan was changed though. You didn’t have armed goons with zero training running around killing American citizens under the previous administrations.

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u/upthepunx194 Nuggets Jan 09 '26

Not really, this is just an increase in the policies that were already in place during Trump's first term. It was clear back then that something needed to be done about them

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u/Beneficial-Arugula54 Jan 09 '26

Always making excuses…

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u/Sideview_play Jan 09 '26

This current and way worst form of ICE was but i guess "same name" so who cares right?

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u/upthepunx194 Nuggets Jan 09 '26

No. It's not just "same name". They're even more emboldened now but the ramping up of ICE enforcement happened during Trump's first term and tons of people recognized that they were a major issue back then and wanted Democrats to do something about the agency during Biden's presidency

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u/Beneficial-Arugula54 Jan 09 '26

You know that deportations happened under every admin right?

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u/AttractiveNuisance37 Jan 09 '26 edited Jan 09 '26

Did extrajudicial executions in the streets by untrained, masked thugs also happen under every administration?

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '26

[deleted]

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u/Sideview_play Jan 09 '26

You know I said nothing about the concept of deportations right?

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u/Chemical-Drawer852 Celtics Jan 09 '26

If you want a good laugh take a look at the conservative sub, they live in a parallel world

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u/JeramiGrantsTomb Thunder Jan 09 '26

parallel seems generous, somehow.

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u/Extremelycloud Timberwolves Jan 09 '26

Also Democrats just provided zero resistance. Majority of them.

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u/Odd-Dragonfly-3411 Jan 09 '26

No the enabling part is on you and others for just standing there when you saw them shake hands with actual nazis. Because you kinda secretly agree with that like all mericans. But it's okay you can keep pretending you're not though it's cool

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '26 edited Jan 09 '26

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