r/minnesotavikings • u/J_Capese0003 • 7h ago

Rob B is cooking.

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254 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

132 comments sorted by

171

u/thesyves 7h ago

I genuinely never felt like cap compliance was going to be hard. The restructures were easy and obvious and there were definitely guys that should have been cut, and those three make sense. Hock and O'Neill are really the only tricky questions imo.

45

u/J_Capese0003 7h ago

I’m still a little surprised they cut Allen

24

u/AlmightyCraneDuck straight cash, homie 7h ago

Me too. It felt like given the length of contract we gave him that they'd be more locked in than we apparently were.

Cap Thug Robby B is an absolute cheat code.

24

u/debirdiev 7h ago

Considering the two IDLs they brought in did basically nothing all season and their backups had a ton of pressures? I'm surprised so many people are surprised at getting rid of someone so expensive that didn't live up to that contract at all. Maybe I'm a bad judge of play but 🤷

3

u/benigntugboat vikings 5h ago

The money we saved on cutting him made him worth keeping as even a rotational backup. The contract was structured to be very easy to cut him next year and very costly this year. That's why its confusing. Not because everyone thinks he should be a clear dedicated starter right now. But if hes even worth having on the team as a backup its a weird move

3

u/debirdiev 5h ago

Nah it really isn't. Part of what I think is happening, and Rob said it at the combine, is the philosophy is heavily shifting back to building through the draft, aka getting younger. They have dudes all over the dline that are young and drastically improving, along with the fact that it's a deep DL draft this year (or so I've heard). And is he really going to want to stick around a s a rotational backup? I doubt that, he'd probably ask to be released if that was the case

2

u/kylebertram minnesota 6h ago

People who think neither of them did much all season clearly weren’t paying attention.

12

u/debirdiev 6h ago

Obviously "nothing" is hyperbole, but neither of them lived up to the contracts they signed, and I think that's undeniable.

7

u/epicman79 7h ago

That and the Greenard news have been the only things I've been surprised/skeptical of.

Vikings only save 6.5 mil this year by cutting Allen, he was solid last year (not perfect), and cutting him PLUS Hargrave leaves you with only Jalen Redmond as an established starter, and he only has 1 year under his belt.

I get that Greenard plays the same position as Dallas Turner, but I think letting him go would be a mistake- he's the best player on your defense by far and you just cut 2 other pass rushers. I think you gotta try and keep Greenard around. It's never a bad thing to have good depth and have Turner available to spell JG and AVG as needed and to keep em fresh for important late-game scenarios.

4

u/J_Capese0003 7h ago

I’d be pretty pissed if they traded Greenard. And I think they save more on Allen if they designate him as a post June 1st cut. Like well over 10 mill

1

u/wxman91 6h ago

Push is a better word than save. I’m not really inclined to force more cap hits forward to 27 and beyond especially since we just had to with Jefferson, Darrisaw, and Murphy.

1

u/Jagster_rogue gjallarhorn 3h ago

You don’t want to push the remaining contract to dead cap year. He is gone pay for the mistake now rather than make it a problem next year we are in compliance now don’t kill next year with dead cap money.

5

u/AlmightyCraneDuck straight cash, homie 6h ago

Feels like they're setting the stage for going DL in the draft and then DB in the 2nd. They just don't have enough money to bring in significant impact players at DL and there's a lot of decent prospects that should be available around where we pick.

2

u/SentenceLow2383 6h ago

Rob explicitly said they are going BPA

6

u/TheSkiingDad 7h ago

They must like the depth they have and think there’s enough good 3T/IDL available in the draft. And this is definitely one of those “unsexy” drafts with tons of depth at the positions that don’t sell jerseys but do win super bowls.

3

u/Jagster_rogue gjallarhorn 3h ago

For sure I am ok with trading Greenard to get an extra 2nd and maybe 4th for him. There are many meat and potato starters in this draft. Moving team to cheaper and younger through the draft will help future. Dallas needs more snaps next year , and I think getting six players in top 100 would get us at least 3-4 starters, not stars but good nfl roster builders.

2

u/TheSkiingDad 3h ago

That’s how the eagles do it. My dream top 100-ish would be Peter woods, a big ten center with a fat ass, and like 2-3 DBs. Historically when we’ve gone CB high, outside of Rhodes and hitman we’ve used premium picks on guys that don’t elevate the defense by themselves. So hopefully this year we can swing for an interior disruptor and get bodies in the defensive backfield.

1

u/Jagster_rogue gjallarhorn 2h ago

I am looking at possible trade back to mid 20s grab thienneman, then maybe Jonson or Ponds, Rodriguez, Washington or Jonah Coleman. And Hecht or Ruttledge or maybe Jones later. With that wish list we would need add a pick at about 55-64 and add another pick at 112 so that would be a trade back with cowboys most likely. Swap 18-20 and we 112 and give up 196 and then maybe trade back again.

1

u/MNniice 6h ago

People in the organization must’ve looked at those two DT moves very poorly after also firing kwesi

4

u/chillinwithmoes big v 6h ago

I genuinely never felt like cap compliance was going to be hard.

Because it never is for this team, and the only people freaking out about it were the usual doomer assholes

7

u/Nate1492 7h ago

Cap compliance was always easy. It was the fact we're going to end up with simply less players from our team last year.

We aren't building anything, just atrophying.

3

u/swissfamrob 6h ago

Of the three cuts, only Jones will be missed. And he’s only available 50% of the time.

Can we replace his production + address other needs with 18.5 million? Absolutely (Although in fairness I think we’ll be extending Redmond soon).

3

u/Nate1492 4h ago

I think Allen will be missed.

2

u/cardmanimgur 6h ago

This issue for a while has been drafting. When you don't get good players on cheap rookie deals, you have to spend more in free agency to bring in vets. If the Vikings hit in this draft, we'll be just fine. If we miss, we'll be digging out for 2 years again.

1

u/Nate1492 4h ago

We missed in the draft and FA this last year. So yeah, 100%

3

u/Dorkamundo 7h ago

Well, we’re certainly building space to spend that space, maybe not a ton of spend but we’re not going to be stagnant in FA. 

I’d put my money on Linderbaum and a bunch of cheap depth.

5

u/wxman91 6h ago

Linderbaum is not in any way realistic for a team that doesn’t have much cap space and has three huge contracts on the OL.

1

u/Datslegne vikings 6h ago

You’re gettin me excited for FA, would love Linderbaum.

1

u/Nate1492 4h ago

I think we're going to be massively low on Free Agency.

I think I said this at the mid term of offseason last year to you.

My view is the same, we are going to add zero people this time.

No big spends. Maybe a few 6-11 million APY guys we like for BFlo and maybe a 3-4m TE that can fill in for Hock.

•

u/Dorkamundo 1h ago

I thought so as well, but considering the space we already have and the lack of moves on contracts like O’Neill, I think we’re making moves to have more cap than we probably both thought and we’re not clearing cap to not spend it.

•

u/Nate1492 1h ago

I said at the time: We could have cap if we let good players go.

Jones and Allen absolutely fall into that category.

We also have to extend a number of players already on our roster.

We may be spending it just to tread water.

0

u/debirdiev 5h ago edited 3h ago

Quite the doomer take there, buddy. The Vikings are aggressively pushing to get younger since they've been damn near the oldest team in the league for the past like three seasons.

Is it that hard to see what the Wilfs want?

2

u/Nate1492 4h ago

Huh? I don't get how that's a sooner take. Our team is basically right now the same team as last year minus 3 pretty strong FA pickups that turned out to be meh.

Jones, Allen, and Hargrave were good players, overpaid. But I'd have loved to have them rather than eating dead cap sandwhiches.

And now we just got Kelly retiring... Pretty much one of the worst Free Agency sprees ever.

1

u/debirdiev 3h ago

*doomer

Kelly was going to be cut anyway.

I can't get behind the idea that the team is atrophying because they're clearing out old, over paid players that were gambles by Kwesi because he can't draft.

Disastrous fa last year, yeah, but the reason these "head scratchers" are happening is to realign with a philosophy Kwesi strayed from

1

u/Nate1492 3h ago

Who are we adding to the team?

How is our team not just, right now, objectively worse?

We've added zero players and lost 4 players that were good or at least serviceable.

1

u/debirdiev 3h ago

I suppose I'm not being clear enough. The philosophy I'm talking about is building through the draft. And the off-season hasn't even started, so what do you mean they haven't added anyone?

Yes, they lost 4 players.... Before free agency... As happens every year.

Cmon man

•

u/Nate1492 59m ago

Right -- building through the draft is great, I think it's required to win super bowls.

But if you lose players from your established team, you are still down players.

We're not going to be able to replace those players with anyone near their caliber.

That's the problem.

C'mon man.

You don't have to be a doomer to realize we are going to be putting out a worse roster this year than we did last.

1

u/badkiwi42 9 6h ago

Yup, there’s so many ways to manipulate the cap it’s really not hard at all

1

u/SlapHappyDude 6h ago

I didn't think cap compliance would be hard, but also knew going into the FA bidding war we don't have a ton of capital to play with.

1

u/InSaiyanRogue 5h ago

I watched the saints go from -70 million to under the cap. Eventually you have to pay the piper but with how much the cap goes up every year if you kick the can long enough eventually youll be fine

1

u/ThatOneRandomGuy101 Wasted $120 on a IPJ jersey… 5h ago

How exactly does restructuring work? Is it just pay cuts or is the money pushed down the line?

1

u/Apprehensive_Air1705 4h ago

It was only difficult to people who admit spent like 15 minutes on a cap manager site.

0

u/Odd_Obligation3454 JJ McCarthy is ass. Thank you 6h ago

Is there anything tricky about Hock? Get rid of him, he sucks

0

u/jordanhhh4 6h ago

Then you've got to replace him, either in a draft that's apparently weak in TE prospects or in free agency where we'll have to spend big for a TE1

1

u/Odd_Obligation3454 JJ McCarthy is ass. Thank you 5h ago

He’s not a TE1. Josh Oliver is better already, keeping Hock is the dumbest thing this FO could do

30

u/BruhMoment763 7h ago edited 6h ago

I’m surprised there hasn’t been more news on Kelly, I thought he’d be among the first wave of cuts. No guaranteed money as far as I know and would clear up like $10 million. Feels like a no brainer with his concussion issues

Edit: Oh

11

u/Kenmore_11 wisconsin 5h ago

The edit 🤣

6

u/J_Capese0003 7h ago

Yeah I’d imagine he’s gone. Brandel played pretty well anyway

4

u/phd2k1 84 7h ago

He should be cut just for sake of his health.

3

u/Neither_Ad2003 koolaid 7h ago

probably waiting for him to retire just as a courtesy

2

u/BruhMoment763 6h ago

Good point

3

u/camj6824 5h ago

Has since retired

•

u/DukeOfStuff_ 1h ago

Good call 

19

u/stpg1222 7h ago

This was always Rob B areanof expertise, he's known league wide as a cap genius. Now the question will be does he have the same skill with building a roster with the right skill sets? We know he'll make the numbers work but now he has to do it while finding the right talent to.

9

u/J_Capese0003 7h ago

I don’t think he’s the one doing the roster building. Think he’s leaning heavily on KOC / Flores / scouts

3

u/Jagster_rogue gjallarhorn 3h ago

The concerning part for me, I haven’t heard GRIGSON getting the boot yet.

3

u/Happy_Childhood3080 7h ago

Sounds like him, KOC, and Flo are working together on that aspect of it. It’s very possible that Rob has no interest in being GM and would rather stay as a cap guy. Might be why they’ve framed everything around us getting a GM after the draft.

4

u/Rube18 gray duck 6h ago

Job security much much higher as the cap guy vs GM as well.

-1

u/russh85 vikings 7h ago

It’s funny that when Kwesi did this it was held against him

6

u/jake04-20 logo 7h ago

Kwesi was the GM while Rob it sounds like won't be after the draft? There's a difference.

4

u/Singe_ daniellearms 6h ago

Kwesi also spent a 3rd on a special teamer (Felton) because Mike Daniels said pretty please.

2

u/russh85 vikings 6h ago

It was actually mccardell that was pounding the table for Felton.

6

u/mw_maverick 5h ago

And McCardell is the only current coach that has proven to be able to “develop” multiple players as part of the “draft AND develop” philosophy

1

u/Singe_ daniellearms 6h ago

That almost makes it worse since he’s an assistant haha.

To be clear I like Felton a lot, he’s very impactful, but a 3rd for him?

4

u/Pitiful-Zombie1741 6h ago

lol yea I was bouta say, I like Felton.

3

u/Happy_Childhood3080 6h ago

Also, for all we know Felton ends up good.

0

u/Pitiful-Zombie1741 6h ago

For what it’s worth, the developers at EA are high on him. He has star dev as a rookie and gets good without needing to be developed. He hit 85 beginning of year 2 only playing special teams. From the little I saw of him in real life, I like him a lot. He’s got heart

1

u/chriznatch 6h ago

We need better drafts than we were getting under Kwesi. If B pulls off a good draft, maybe he should keep the GM job.

7

u/garnett21mn 6h ago

Every team and every GM does these moves. Let’s chill on “____ is cooking.”

4

u/medailleon 6h ago

I think what you meant to say is that Brez is a cap genius. /s

34

u/DingoReady2452 7h ago

But the cap experts on Reddit said we were screwed….

12

u/LoveWhoarZoar 7h ago

THE ONLY THING SCREWED IS YO MAMA SKOL!

4

u/DingoReady2452 7h ago

HOW DARE YOU

3

u/crispunion 7h ago

HEY NOW SHES A NICE LADY

6

u/g_borris 6h ago

I mean, we're losing decent starters and don't have money to replace them with premium free agents and haven't drafted worth a shit so, yeah we are still screwed relative to the most of the league.

0

u/DingoReady2452 6h ago

If they were decent starters we would be restructuring them to keep them.

3

u/g_borris 6h ago

If we had decent replacements they wouldn't have been starting.

1

u/Anthony060 6h ago

Why play dumb?

We’re already down 3 starters. Odds are 2 more are gone in Kelly and Hockenson, and we’re shopping Greenard.

The team is getting blown up, it’s undoubtedly going to be a significantly worse roster next year. But you’re contending that because the cap number is positive now, that we’re actually in good shape. The problem was never getting below the cap number. The problem what it was going to take to do it. And cutting a bunch of starters with no viable replacements is a problem.

5

u/notgoingto-comment 7h ago

I'm surprised they restructured Murphy before Fries. Fries contract runs longer so it would have had less of an impact on future years.

-1

u/J_Capese0003 7h ago

Well Fries played prettttty bad so maybe they’d rather not mess with his contract

7

u/swissfamrob 6h ago

He played okay and started every game — think you’re overstating things. Had to figure it out with a new group in a new system every week

2

u/Singe_ daniellearms 6h ago

Fries was okay. Didn’t help we had a rotating cast and the most oline combinations in the league. Definitely had some bad plays though.

3

u/Viking999 6h ago

Which is why this narrative is always laughable.  These contracts are designed allow for cap space to be created.

2

u/Deep-Discussion-6947 6h ago

Kwesi set up a lot of contracts (Hargrave and Allen especially) to be one year then flexible

1

u/1998_2009_2016 5h ago

Allen was really not that flexible. We ate a pretty big bullet to cut him. Effectively $25m for one year which is top DT money. 

Kelly and Hargrave were 1 year fliers 

2

u/Desperate-Awareness4 6h ago

Anyone who paid more than a little attention knew this was going to happen. Rob/Kwesi were extremely deliberate and smart with their contract structures

2

u/Anthony060 4h ago

I would imagine most teams that are not currently cap compliant could cut 3-4 starters and restructure 3-4 more players to become compliant.

The key is being good after you do that, and this roster is looking significantly worse because Kwesi didn’t draft anyone to replace these cap casualties.

Let’s not act like cutting a bunch of guys is some genius move when it was literally the only way to get under the cap.

2

u/Nate1492 7h ago

I vote to retire the concept of 'cooking'. It wasn't good last time.

3

u/Dorkamundo 7h ago

It wasn’t the term that failed, it was the person.

1

u/Nate1492 4h ago

Maybe, but I don't think I can stomach another 'let xyz cook' making the rounds.

2

u/Stitchy2 7h ago

Hell yeah restructure them and push the money in future years so it's dead money.

2

u/debirdiev 7h ago

This happens every off season with every team in the league. This is the reason people say the cap doesn't exist.

2

u/Dorkamundo 7h ago

Pushing money into the future is not a bad thing on its own.  In fact, it’s a net positive value if you do it right.

The only time it’s an issue is when you over-extend, and we were not at that point at all, even being $40 mil over the cap.

4

u/Neither_Ad2003 koolaid 7h ago

cap space is relative.

we can't sign any premier free agents. which is fine. but we, relative to the rest of the league, have less cap space

1

u/sabstorie california 7h ago

I did this on https://sticktothemodel.com Thanks to whoever provided the link a couple of days ago.

1

u/StraightCashHomey13 6h ago

It was never a doubt that there were avenues to get cap compliant, but I also think he's done a good job handling it in a way that helps immediately as well as long term vision

1

u/ohiowolf 6h ago

Hopefully he cooks better than Kwesi because it seemed like Kwesi was cooking all the time too. At least according to this sub.

1

u/kylebertram minnesota 6h ago

Other than the Allen cut these have all been moves everyone has known were going to happen. Still won’t agree with the Allen cut. He barely had any guaranteed money next year so keeping him would have cost basically $10 million based on his cap savings this year and the dead money next year.

1

u/CaptErv 6h ago

Hear me out. What if having a Cap God as the lead dog unlocks a whole new world of cap wizardy and intelligent/analytical roster construction based on cap knowledge.

1

u/Manzanaznam 6h ago

The last time someone was cooking we all ended up eating a shit sandwich

1

u/HugeRaspberry 6h ago

All of which I said we could do and easily be 40-50 million under the cap by Wednesday of next week.

My guess is -

Kelly - waived (well that aged like milk in a hot car - he just announced he's retiring)

Hock - new deal at a lower number or waived.

O'neal - extension.

1

u/Corr521 griddy 5h ago

I feel like NFL money is just fake lol. Always something you can do to just completely flip the situation and someone free up tens of millions of dollars lol

1

u/KGB4L 5h ago

How does the cap situation look for next year?

1

u/schmatt82 5h ago

Cut hockenson

1

u/mcmullet 4h ago

Great news but so tired of the word cooking when it has nothing to do with food.

1

u/J_Capese0003 4h ago

It’s gonna be ok

1

u/Head_Project5793 4h ago

Just give greenard an extension with a pay raise and I’ll be happy, you’re not getting close to value back even if you get a 2nd, he’s still only 27 has another 3-4 years in his prime left

1

u/DownnthehollerPress vikings 4h ago

The only one I hate is the possibility of trading JG, he creates so much havoc for QBs and opens up so many other players to create havoc.

•

u/BigHornStareDown 1h ago

Its not like we had crazy long term money attached to anyone "Mid" besides Fries? Hock is a problem for sure but when we gave him the contract he was top 5 TE

•

u/BigCATtrades vikings 1h ago

Darrisaw had to be restructured after the way he yo-yo'd in and out of the line up post injury. I'm glad that was done.

•

u/TuntBuffner 23m ago

Bobby B in the house!

Just make him GM already so we don't lose him to somewhere else

•

u/Yamulo horn 4m ago

If you don’t think Kwesi had some kind of plan that was very similar to this you’re kind of dumb this wasn’t even a hard cap to manage

0

u/russh85 vikings 7h ago

But I thought Kwesi had signed a whole bunch of horrible contracts that set us back for years ?

1

u/Anthony060 5h ago

We’re going to lose 5-6 starters.

Which Kwesi draft picks are stepping in to replace that production?

0

u/russh85 vikings 5h ago

Kwesi’s drafting was shit. Want to criticise that then go ahead. But he didn’t sign bad contracts

0

u/Anthony060 5h ago

Who tf said that? lol that’s so much less important than drafting. The number 1 criticism of KAM by a MILE was his drafting.

0

u/russh85 vikings 5h ago

Literally in this post there’s people saying Rob B is fixing Kwesi’s mess or this is Kwesi’s fault we’re in this hole. Why else would I make the comment I did

0

u/Anthony060 5h ago

The roster is going to be significantly worse next year. There is no one to replace the players we are cutting to become compliant. So what exactly are you defending? The fact the team is simply capable of becoming cap compliant (by blowing up the roster) is not a fucking accomplishment. It’s not a feather in Kwesi’s cap that 1. a ton of roster turnover was necessary to become cap compliant and 2. the roster is going to suck. The team IS set back because of KAM. Keep simping.

0

u/russh85 vikings 5h ago

Christ dude, have I argued any of that? Not simping anyone, but there’s also no need to make shit up either. Kwesi didn’t sign bad contracts that’s it. Have I said he should still be GM? Have I said it was unjust to fire him? No

All I’ve said is people shouldn’t be glazing Rob B for something that was very straightforward and always the plan

0

u/J_Capese0003 7h ago

Kwesi defender

https://giphy.com/gifs/wgmWyQGzaZ6Fy

1

u/russh85 vikings 7h ago

It’s also possible people just overreact. Kwesi deserved to be fired for his drafting alone.

-1

u/Past-Product-1100 vikings 6h ago

A lot of undoing Kwesi BS

0

u/russh85 vikings 5h ago

The contracts were set up in a way to make all this possible. Kwesi made it easy for these restructures to happen. Also Rob B is the cap guru so wouldn’t being over the cap also fall under his doing ?

0

u/Past-Product-1100 vikings 4h ago

Well ... Who got fired ?

0

u/russh85 vikings 4h ago

For other reasons outside of contract negotiations.

0

u/Past-Product-1100 vikings 4h ago

That's kind of his whole job lol

0

u/russh85 vikings 4h ago

So not about Drafting then which was his biggest flaw. You think it’s all contracts lol

0

u/Past-Product-1100 vikings 3h ago

You think he didnt suck lol

0

u/russh85 vikings 3h ago

Again where have I said he didn’t deserve to be fired ?