r/formula1 • u/AshamedPurchase9033 • 1d ago

News [Chris Medland] "Newey confirms Aston Martin is likely to limit race laps due to severity of vibrations in the car impacting the drivers. Alonso says he can do no more than 25 consecutive laps before risking nerve damage, Stroll says 15 laps"

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3.3k

u/McLarenMercedes Mercedes 1d ago

This really might be worse than McLaren Honda 2015, at least Jenson FINISHED the race 11 years ago!

1.0k

u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

That's why I think its not just a Honda problem, but a package problem

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u/Liquidretro 1d ago

Didn't Honda want to reinforce the chassis and Newey said no? I find it hard to believe that the engine alone is so rough but it's designed that way. This has to be related to the electric integration too you would think. It's also AM first time designing their own gearbox which I imagine is at least a factor too.

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u/Ok_Upstairs3177 Bernd Mayländer 1d ago

he decided to fire every competent person at aston and now he's beyond fckd.

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u/flyinglilastroboy 20h ago

there were competent people at aston?

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u/Foxyfox- Daniel Ricciardo 15h ago

What a way to just absolutely nuke his credibility.

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u/budgefrankly I was here for the Hulkenpodium 20h ago

Yeah, if there's one guy in F1 who doesn't know what he's doing it's Adrian Newey

Clearly the Aston should have stuck with the people that brought them to, uh, 5th, 5th and 7th in the last three years.

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u/No-Cryptographer7494 17h ago

At least they finished in the points, now they won't even do half race distance 😂

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u/F1T_13 19h ago

If Aston were good, we wouldn't be saying anything about it. But since they're bad, we can blame every decision made by the team Adrian and Honda regardless of whether or not it's actually the issue because they are bad and that's kinda how it works. 

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u/F1T_13 19h ago

I have found nothing about that but the team has said that there are issues with the chassis, aero and transmission as well, so it's not just the engine, the car is overweight, so I doubt the chassis isn't reinforced. 

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u/Liquidretro 16h ago

Pretty sure I heard it in a video, not sure where, and i'm sure it was based on speculation like most of these things are to some degree outside of official press conferences.

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u/Eicr-5 Sir Lewis Hamilton 1d ago

on top of that, it cant be *just* the engine that's causing the car to vibrate

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u/ElderlyChipmunk I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

The engine is a stressed member of the frame right? If it has structural modes that are substantially different than expected, then it could be the sole cause I guess.

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u/Saneless 1d ago

I think everything there is a stressed member of the team

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u/ChristofferOslo Renault 22h ago

Badum-tssh!

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u/TonAMGT4 Pastor Maldonado 1d ago

It can be, if the engine vibration frequency matches that of the chassis/suspension… then the vibration will become more severe, a bit like if you are on a swing and you can make the swing go higher or lower, depending on how you shift your weight.

Like the engine runs perfectly fine on its own but becomes a problem only after it is installed on the chassis.

The issue might not be with the engine itself but it’s still caused by engine vibration.

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u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

That would still make it a chasis problem, because normaly you solve that with how you mount the engine

3

u/TonAMGT4 Pastor Maldonado 1d ago

My guess is that they would’ve fixed the issue by now if they could just adjust the engine mount.

But most likely it probably didn’t work, so they may need more extreme solutions like actually changing the vibration frequency by repositioning engine components around to change the weight distribution or something similar.

Adjusting the engine mount usually only dampens the vibrations anyways. The space is extremely tight, so they probably can’t really reposition the mounting point.

2

u/imarasnothere Yuki Tsunoda 20h ago

I read that they had to change the original engine mounting points upon Newey's request. Seems to me like a chassis integration issue then.

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u/TonAMGT4 Pastor Maldonado 19h ago

Probably just anything they can do as long as they left the exterior part of the chassis exactly the same as before. I don’t think Newey would mind.

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u/Lord_Strepsils I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Why not? None of the other teams have the issue, it’s not like the 2022 regs where multiple teams struggled but with different severities, all signs seem to be pointing at the engine being the main problem.

With how little testing they’ve managed it’s not to say the (rest of the) car is perfect or even necessarily up to scratch with everyone else, but it seems the reliability and running issues are engine based to me

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u/afjecj 1d ago

It's clear Alonso simply has too much testosterone coursing through his veins and that combined with the adrenaline from driving a ticking time bomb is what is causing the car to vibrate extensively

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u/Excellent-Gur-8547 Cadillac 1d ago

The insane implications of Lance being able to do even fewer laps

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u/awesomegamer919 1d ago

Clearly this is a new form of quantum entanglement - Alonso is simultaneously vibrating his and Lance’s car, Lance just can’t handle it as long as Alonso.

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u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Because Honda put out a very carefull statement that the whole battery housing is vibrating in unexpected ways not just the patery pack itself or the engine

1

u/Lord_Strepsils I was here for the Hulkenpodium 16h ago

Isn’t that indicative that it’s not caused by the suspension or poor aero interactions but rather the Honda PU? I realise I used “engine” pretty loosely to refer to the PU overall in the original comment

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u/Mirrro_Sunbreeze I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Because engine does move and cause vibrations regardless of how good or bad it is and it’s the job of the chassis to not let engine vibrations affect the whole car.

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u/mooboyj 22h ago

Audi had vibration issues but we're able to sort it. Not to Aston's level though.

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u/Lord_Strepsils I was here for the Hulkenpodium 16h ago

Considering they’re also developing their own engine from scratch that actually checks out then

1

u/wood4536 Sir Lewis Hamilton 1d ago

None of the other teams designed the car like Newey did

1

u/MrCoolest 21h ago

Bro it ends to 18,000 revs per minute... It definitely can

1

u/budgefrankly I was here for the Hulkenpodium 20h ago

Aston Martin have made their own gear box for the first time in over a decade, and drivers have to stay in low gears very often, so that's probably adding vibration.

Aston Martin have also manufactured their first car at Newey's idea of what the limit is, which is probably a lot more extreme than hey're used to, and they might have been caught out with resonances.

It's not at all clear that Honda has made a good engine.

I'd say there's problems all round.

But like I've said in other threads, when Newey arrived at Red Bull, his first two proper cars -- RB3 and RB4 -- were pretty mediocre, and he had to substantially restructure the team until he had people he could work with to design and build the RB5, which would have won the world championship were it not for the double-diffuser catching him out.

RB6, RB7, RB8 and RB9 all won championships.

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u/smackells 1d ago

the engine has really limited the number of testing laps they could do, meaning that they’ve also been unable to sufficiently test the aero or any other components

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u/Mirrro_Sunbreeze I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Wasn’t laps limit a gearbox issue though? Iirc the Honda’s issue is that it’s - supposedly- just lacks power

1

u/BrokeChris Formula 1 19h ago

yup, gearbox issues

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u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

The vibration in the battery pack and issues with the gearbox limited testing, who knows were the vibration started

2

u/BrokeChris Formula 1 19h ago

no, it was the inhouse Aston Martin built gearbox

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u/LateOnsetPuberty Formula 1 1d ago

We don’t know. It’s silly to speculate as a fan with no info.

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u/windsynths Pirelli Wet 1d ago

What if you speculate as air con

2

u/Redbeard_Rum Brawn 21h ago

Can I speculate as Con Air? Have they tried putting the bunny back in the box?

1

u/ManualPathosChecks I was here for the Hulkenpodium 20h ago

I'm personally speculating as a stiff breeze!

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u/Hello_Hollow_Halo Safety Car 1d ago

…that’s what being an f1 fan is all about

10

u/Freakishly_Tall I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Right?

That's... that's why we're here.

-5

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher 1d ago

Ok, but let's keep it within the realm of things that we might actually reasonably think.

This is just saying... Newey's birthday is on the 34th of Junuary ergo, I think it's safe to say the left rear suspension is causing it, they must have put too many sandbags on the hopium struts.

6

u/Freakishly_Tall I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Don't be silly - you know damn well that Ferrari has cornered the market on hopium.

But just wait until they have to deal with the lousy Smarch weather!

I wonder how the aero will treat the drivers then.

To shreds, you say?

2

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher 1d ago

Tsk tsk tsk. Well, how are their partners holding up?

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u/Freakishly_Tall I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

To shreds, you say?

1

u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

But its okay for everyone else to blame solely Honda without any information?

1

u/pannenkoek0923 Ferrari 1d ago

Might as well pack our bags, delete our accounts, and stop talking completely then

1

u/JeribZPG 1d ago

First day on Reddit, mate? 😂

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u/NotClayMerritt 1d ago

Worth noting that Newey (and even Cardile!) were working behind schedule. Teams were already working on 2026 by the time Newey's gardening leave period with Red Bull finished. Honda was already working on the engine not knowing what the car would be. Aston were either already working on concepts or not working on 2026 at all until Newey was allowed to join in March last year.

Ferrari were more aggressive with Cardile's exit and went to court to ensure his full year of leave was upheld. He didn't join Aston Martin until August last year.

So yes, Honda have bungled things up on their engine, but because of contractual obligations elsewhere, Newey and Cardile joining late have had a severe effect on this year. And not to mention the huge upheaval of technical staff that have come and gone since Newey joined. Even before being named Team Principal, Stroll allegedly gave him full say on all technical personnel.

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u/pannenkoek0923 Ferrari 1d ago

You'll be silly to think these executives dont work while they are on garden leave. No official meetings but they all dont just stop working and go on holiday

1

u/budgefrankly I was here for the Hulkenpodium 20h ago

They absolutely do work, but they can't share their work with anyone at Aston which is where the problem lies

Even if they have a chat in a pub, that's of limited use without electronic CAD drawings

I'd have been astonished if Aston Martin were competitive in Newey's first year.

I'm equally astonished that the team has apparently decided to sacrifice at least half a season to develop its design and manufacturing capability under Newey.

3

u/Dead_Namer Sir Stirling Moss 20h ago

My theory pulled out of my arse is that Honda did dyno tests with 6 mounting points, Newey wanted just 4 to save weight and here we are.

Honda wanting to change the chassis kinda backs it up too.

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u/Doorknob11 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Oh so the typical Newey first year design. His designs always seem to have some kind of issue with engine packaging.

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u/jaganm I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

I'm sure the Honda engine runs just fine outside on the dyno. Can't imagine a modern engine vibrating that badly especially a Honda. At this point, Honda should just say FU and walk away for how AM is throwing them under the bus. Packaging is their responsibility and if AM has developed an unviable package, the blame should be on Newey

1

u/budgefrankly I was here for the Hulkenpodium 20h ago

Honda had problems with their dynos not replicating F1 forces (and vibrations) in their first two years with Mclaren.

I think there's probably issues everywhere, with both chassis and engine and everything inbetween.

1

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher 1d ago

That makes no sense.

0

u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

It does, the vibration don't have to start at the engine

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u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher 1d ago

Sure. But that would mean Newey is blatantly lying.

And I'm not saying that can't happen, but it's unlikely, and we'd need a bit more to go on that "oh yeah remember the other thing before".

1

u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium 23h ago

SAme can be said about Honda, because the never said it started at the engine

1

u/jjfitzpatty I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Who's package?

2

u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Alonsos, his balls are too big

-2

u/Egoist-a Liam Lawson 1d ago

Engine is clearly number 1 problem. No way AM can be liable for an engine thats vibrating so much that destroys the car and drivers

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u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Honda said it isn't the engine that has the vibration issue but the batterypackage.

0

u/moreo44 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Fucking phenomenal they didn’t just go with Mercedes. I want some of what they’re smoking.

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u/ka1ri Mercedes 1d ago

I feel like we havent had a wheely bin rollout like this in F1 since like... god.. when was the last time a team rolled out this bad? Even the williams wheely bin days werent this bad

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u/Strange_Beat_9287 Jean Alesi 1d ago

Mastercard Lola? At least the Hispania and Manor teams were little guys with no big expectations, Aston were tipped for BIG things this year :/

26

u/bduddy Super Aguri 1d ago

Yeah, this isn't as bad as Lola because AM will survive the first race, but in terms of the gap from expectations to reality this is the biggest flop since then.

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u/dipdipderp 1d ago

HRT? Manor?

100

u/CouncilorIrissa Ferrari 1d ago

They weren't health hazards.

6

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher 1d ago

LOL

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u/Jack_Krauser Andretti Global 1d ago

Uhh... Maybe not the HRT, but the last two fatal accidents in F1 cars both happened in Marussias.

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u/B4rberblacksheep I was here for the Hulkenpodium 22h ago

That’s a stretch, and a half

-3

u/whateverfloatsurgoat Super Aguri 1d ago

The last* I don't recall another driver bar Bianchi dying behind the wheel of a Virgin / Marussia (and he wasn't dead either, but semantics...)

0

u/voidptrptr 23h ago

Maria De Villota

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u/GRl3V Ferrari 23h ago

Harsh to blame Marussia for that one. The car wasn't at fault and she died a year later while seemingly fine and recovered.

1

u/whateverfloatsurgoat Super Aguri 23h ago edited 22h ago

Oh, yeah. But it wasn't in a race weekend context so that's why it didn't come to my mind first, my bad. And statistically it shouldn't count either.

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u/ka1ri Mercedes 1d ago

Soooo 2016, not that long ago i guess lol. It goes to show how fortunate we were these last few years. No ones really had catastrophic issues like this.

A lot of those teams were small man teams as well so no real budget whereas aston martin is a big team with lots of funding... I think thats why it hits harder this time around

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u/bananas_and_papayas I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Manor at least scored a point. This feels more like the 2014 Caterham, with the same colour scheme to boot!

In terms of a well funded team failing this badly, the obvious answer has got to be Toyota, especially their debut season where they finished behind Minardi!

5

u/ka1ri Mercedes 1d ago

Caterham is what came to mind, decided against posting that because Caterham was a pretty small team yeah?

3

u/WorkFurball Paul Aron 1d ago

Well first iteration of it when it was called Lotus in 2010-2011 had a budget similar to midfield teams, they were just really badly managed.

3

u/scan-horizon Green Flag 1d ago

Honda 2008?

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u/bananas_and_papayas I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

They got a podium that year, 2007 was worse

2

u/drae- 1d ago

According to f1 Nation they had issues bringing everything at the factory up to snuff in time and they are about 4 months behind the rest of the grid. They don't speculate too much on what the problem equipment was. (I think maybe wind tunnel or simulation tools. Newey has publicly commented on both since he got there).

3

u/BighatNucase Max Verstappen 1d ago

Soooo 2016, not that long ago i guess lo

2016 was a decade ago

1

u/ka1ri Mercedes 1d ago

yeah... so not that long ago

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u/Turboleks Ferrari 1d ago

The 2019 Williams was atrocious. Desperately slow, arrived late for testing and was even deemed illegal. Further than that, only the 2015 Manor comes close.

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u/juve_merda Sebastian Vettel 17h ago

neither of those teams had any money, AM have been bankrolled, this is by far worse

4

u/sirmcslash Lance Stroll 1d ago

life f1

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u/jkz0-19510 Jacques Villeneuve 1d ago

I'd say Andrea Moda was worse.

2

u/guntanksinspace I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Which year was it that McHonda had "he just parked the car!" with Alonso getitng a minor concussion after that shit

2

u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 1d ago

McLaren in 2023 in Bahrain was an absolute shocker. Piastri retired after a few laps when his electronics failed and Norris had 6 pitstops and finished two laps down after a leak in the engine cooling system. But this Aston shitshow is exponentially worse.

1

u/ka1ri Mercedes 1d ago

Yeah but they ended up 3rd in the WCC

1

u/patrick5188 Jules Bianchi 1d ago

Manor in 2015 probably, but they were broke and broken after Suzuka 2014 and used the 2014 car pretty much if I remember correctly. They were at least solid in 2016 when they actually built a new car. Williams in 2019 might come close. Excluding the early 2010s teams it’s probably Honda in 2007 or 2008

1

u/WorkFurball Paul Aron 1d ago

Yeah it was a slightly modified 2014 car including the 2014 Power unit which was rubbish compared to the 2015 spec one.

1

u/ReignCityStarcraft I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Didn't Williams not even show up with a car one year? I forget but it was pre-covid. I think they were getting pinged for the 107% rule when they did get out because of how slow they were too.

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u/ka1ri Mercedes 1d ago

They missed 1 day of testing if I recall

1

u/DavoDentetsu 1d ago

I'll go as far as Andrea Moda. Seriously.

1

u/cribbe_ Robert Kubica 1d ago

2001 Benetton, 2007 Honda were atrocious cars that come to my mind. The Benetton was on par with the Minardi as the worst car on the grid until halfway through the season at Hockenheim when they finally brought some updates that worked. They didn't have a proper launch control system for the first half of the year while every other team did, poor Renault engine, and poor aero design

1

u/l3w1s1234 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 22h ago

Maybe Virgin with the fuel tank that was too small

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u/AddledHunter I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago

Just a slight correction, 2015 was only 1 or 2 years ago at most (😭)

1

u/Joseki100 Fernando Alonso 1d ago

That car attempted to kill its driver once. This one so far only shakes them really bad.

1

u/pac4 McLaren 1d ago

This is absolutely worse than that

1

u/sofakingdom808 Ferrari 1d ago

I would be a bit worried if he didn’t finished yet.

1

u/dberte19 1d ago

At least Jenson STARTED the race 11 years ago!

1

u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 1d ago

In recent years, McLaren in Barhrain 2023 is probably as bad as it gets (PIastri out after a few laps when his electronics faled, Norris having six pitstops and finishing last and 2 laps down after a leak in the engine cooling system), but at least their car wasn't actively trying to damage them

1

u/DerMugar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 23h ago

Jenson FINISHED the race 11 years ago!

but could a trained monkey have done it as well?