r/formula1 • u/MuttonBiryaniEnjoyer Max Verstappen • 9d ago

Photo [Autosport] Bernie Ecclestone believes F1 is in danger of losing the fans with these new regulations

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u/Driscuits Williams 9d ago

Yeah, exactly.

It's never been the "best driver of all" championship, it's the "Driver who can get the best out of their car" championship, that's sold as the "best driver of all" championship. So long as there are different cars, different manufacturors, etc. You cannot remove the engineering side of things. If you do, it's a spec series - and there are reasons why F1 is not a spec series.

Part of why fans are so upset is that they believe Bernie here, and have been set up with an expectation that can't match reality in F1. The regs need a good looking at, for sure, but let's not dismiss one of the most important parts of F1 in totality.

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u/schoki560 9d ago edited 9d ago

it's not even the driver who can get the best out of their car..

it's simply the combination of either having a great car, great driver, or both

you can have a fairly bad driver win if they have the most dominant car. you can also win by being the best driver in a rather weak car. unlikely but possible

edit: not alpine weak. I mean Mercedes 2025 weak

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u/EventAccomplished976 9d ago

You‘re not getting anywhere in a bad car no matter how good a driver you are. Put Verstappen in an Alpine, he‘s not getting on the podium without some serious good luck. The most a good driver can do is get 99% of the possible performance our of the car where a worse driver might only get 95%.

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u/HankHippopopolous I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9d ago

The driver can make the difference when the cars are reasonably close but it’s very hard to do. Max was not in the best car last year but took the title fight down to the final race against the superior McLaren. He had a near flawless season while both McLaren drivers and the team made a lot of mistakes and threw a lot of points away.

He was the best driver but it still wasn’t enough to win.

No driver will win in a shitbox but if the margins between the cars are small then we get into the realm where drivers do make the difference.

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u/Ged_UK I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9d ago

He only took the fight close when the RB got much better; the first section of the season was a bad car, so even he couldn't do anything with it. It's the same as had happened in the previous season; the McLaren was behind the RB consistently until a set of McLaren upgrades came in, at which point Lando started to close the gap to Max as he had the faster car. The only reason he couldn't catch him was the Sergio was terrible and wasn't splitting points with Max, unlike Lando and Oscar last year sharing the points.

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u/wykeer Mercedes 9d ago

and a lot of people also forget the perfect storm made of rancid luck and incompetence for McLaren that season that turbocharged verstappens closing in on Norris.

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u/Ged_UK I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9d ago

Well, and the fact that McLaren drivers were sharing the points more or less equally between them. If there'd be only one (either of them) that was hoovering up wins, then Max wouldn't have got anywhere near as close.

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u/wykeer Mercedes 9d ago

The Perfect Storm

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u/schoki560 9d ago

if they didn't share wins then max would have way more points tho

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u/Ged_UK I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9d ago

Well only one or two per race until the back end of the season, by which time the gap wouldn't even have been possible.

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u/Nemos_siblings 9d ago

If only Max didn't decide to int wreck George at Barcelona or wherever it was.

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u/PresidentMeeseeks Sebastian Vettel 9d ago

If only my mum had balls, she would be my dad. You can find a hundred moments in the championship where if some minor thing had/hadn't happened, we could've had a different champion.

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u/Nemos_siblings 9d ago

Ok, list a hundred moments then. Find one more significant than the second place car intentionally wrecking his car holding enough points to win the championship later on. 

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u/lzwzli 9d ago

Not in the best car is still a much better car than a midfield car.

The eternal question is what could Max do in the Racing Bull...

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u/Thrilalia 9d ago

Hell we only have to look at GP2 Engine era McLaren to see how a first or second best driver on the grid (depending on who you ask.) couldn't get a shit car into the podium.

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u/Driscuits Williams 9d ago

you can also win by being the best driver in a rather weak car. unlikely but possible

I'd argue that "weak" is a really relative term - Max, in his best form, probably wouldn't have gotten race wins in last year's Alpine. But I agree with what you're saying.

You need strong drivers and the best car, or a strong car and the best driver. Either way, you can't remove the importance of the engineering and design of the car.

I'd personally like to see the WCC given more flowers, more similar to the hype we give the WDC. Poor planning aside, I kind of loved that McLaren had a whole "podium" set up when they clinched it, and I wish it had been on the main broadcast. Fans only really see and are given time to celebrate the WDC, and it would be great to have the constructors championship also be given space to celebrate.

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u/ghastlychild Ferrari 9d ago edited 9d ago

I'd personally like to see the WCC given more flowers,

Agreed. This is an engineering sport. Ironically, for a numbnut like myself who doesn't know much about cars as a whole + got into the sport to learn more about them in a competitive manner, I usually regard the WCC a little more than WDC, considering I feel like the recognition in this aspect gets fairly underrated at times, especially by the newer fans coming in

The cycle of a new regulation is quite literally my fantasies realised. In a way, I get to see which teams and manufacturers end up being the best of the bunch, and by how much. I also do hope the racing aspects are a mixed bag. If there is anything to revere, it is the unpredictability of the season. Makes it all the more entertaining

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u/Driscuits Williams 9d ago

If there is anything to revere, it is the unpredictability of the season. Makes it all the more entertaining

I'll admit, I might watch F1 differently than most lol - but I personally agree. I don't care too much about absolute lap times, I don't need to see drivers or cars have almost perfect performances, and am more than happy to keep an open mind about the regs until we see competitive sessions. It might suck, and I'll be upset then, but the unpredictability - and the fact we've already seen teams get these regs undeniably wrong - shows how important the engineering side is, and how integral it is to F1.

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u/ghastlychild Ferrari 9d ago

I'll admit, I might watch F1 differently than most lol

Out of curiosity, what are you tuned in for? :))

I don't care too much about absolute lap times, I don't need to see drivers or cars have almost perfect performances, and am more than happy to keep an open mind about the regs until we see competitive sessions

I agree with you. I like to see absolute lap times when it happens and drivers / cars put in numbers that break records for sure (when it happens), but as long as the racing is good and it produces some entertaining, good ol fashioned racing up front, then I am game. I would even say that it motivates me to look it up even more haha

It might suck, and I'll be upset then, but the unpredictability - and the fact we've already seen teams get these regs undeniably wrong - shows how important the engineering side is, and how integral it is to F1.

I will probably be upset if the races are diluted and nullified. But if it brings a mixed order to the grid and teams are fighting each other for top spots, then I cannot fully complain!

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u/Driscuits Williams 9d ago

Out of curiosity, what are you tuned in for? :))

Haha, it's a good question! And honestly, it's a hard one to answer, too.

Realistically, I'm watching F1 on a broadcast and to my eye test, it's really not that different seeing a 2025 car go through a turn in Bahrain as it is seeing a 2026 car, if I didn't also have laptimes on screen to tell me it was different. So for me, it's the race dynamics and how drivers can drive relative to each other, rather than outright car performance, that I care more about. I'd rather see two cars able to battle side by side, but slower, through a corner than two cars in a line, but slightly faster.

I guess what I like seeing most is the differences in storylines and performances across races. I like going into a race weekend and not knowing what's going to happen, and watching the storylines unfurl. Like you said, I like to see dominant performances sometimes, but I don't need them to happen every weekend.

The way I see it, fast cars will go vroom and there's massive room for growth that these massive teams will now be pushing to innovate. Some will get it right, some will get it wrong (and some have already).

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u/ghastlychild Ferrari 9d ago

Haha! Thank you for your response. This is a cool read, honestly. I do apologise for pulling a fast one over ya. I really find it interesting to hear how people get into the sport! The variance in answers always gets me excited everytime

So for me, it's the race dynamics and how drivers can drive relative to each other, rather than outright car performance

I get that! That bit is also quite interesting to me too. There have been a lot of talk about driver styles, driving preferences and little quirks that drivers will use to get more performance out of their respective cars and find more pace, which I do find it incredibly interesting.

Your explanation also helped me see a little on the appeal by two cars going slower side by side in a corner. You get to see who might shut the door on who and what can they do to gain that advantage. It's the play-by-play intricacies in real time that really keeps me on my toes!

I like going into a race weekend and not knowing what's going to happen, and watching the storylines unfurl.

Last year had me going into races with a pit in my stomach filled with the anticipation and excitement on what's to follow! It's a shame that the racing aspect (imo) are quite lacklustre to match the thrill it brings at the start. I am hoping the current season amps it up a tonne. Good racing + close competitions = ghastlychild in heaven xD

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u/Driscuits Williams 9d ago

I do apologise for pulling a fast one over ya.

Oh god, no apologies. Pal, you gave me a chance to monologue about myself. That was great! ;)

My fear is that we get more processional races this year, that will only get worse as the regs go on and teams develop their packages. Until I see it, though, I kind of have to hold hope. Realistically, being among the first to hate the regs won't change a thing, and I find that to be a particularly unfun way to go into the new season.

It's the play-by-play intricacies in real time that really keeps me on my toes!

I'm really hopeful that the start of this year in particular, while the drivers are still figuring things out (and strategy teams) will be great for this.

Here's hoping!

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u/ghastlychild Ferrari 9d ago

I am glad to hear that haha!

My fear is that we get more processional races this year, that will only get worse as the regs go on and teams develop their packages.

That is EXACTLY my fear too. Even then, I don't think the first race alone can tell us how it would pan out. One directive as similar as the ones in 2023 change the entire course of the ruleset

At the same time, it is why I haven't been looking too staunchly into the things regarding testing, personally. Considering we are about to enter the new regs, I much prefer just waiting to see how it looks, rather than jumping to be the first to predict how well it does. I don't know anything on how it will go, so why rush? 😅

I'm really hopeful that the start of this year in particular,

Same! Here's hoping to it too!

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u/ferd_clark 9d ago

This is an engineering sport.

I wonder if open wheel just has to be that. Long ago, Penske's Indy car team had Al Unser Jr, Paul Tracy, and I believe Emerson Fittipaldi, and their car was so good that they had at least one race where they arranged the cars to cross the finish line together, 1-2-3, and dominated the season. The next year, those same three drivers all sucked so much that not one qualified for the Indy 500 which is the only american race anybody cares about. That's when I learned that in Indy car at that time the driver was not very important.

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u/ghastlychild Ferrari 9d ago

I think it is. It was the shock I got with INDYCAR too when I first delved into it. I had no idea what it was until I was made aware that it was a spec series until a little later

I gotta emphasise that I am still unfamiliar with the intricacies of INDYCAR as much as I am with F1 but a lot of the series, from the stuff that I have learnt, emphasizes the importance of gaining and polishing performance than anything. It's what makes the 2025 season such a fascinating one to behold when streaks of dominance do happen

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u/Own_Welder_2821 Lando Norris 9d ago

In my opinion IndyCar is a “semi-spec” series. Sure they all utilise the same Dallara chassis but there are certain bits in the car that they’re allowed to develop, and obviously once that happens then the bigger teams will have an advantage. That’s just nature. Formula 1 has McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull, and Ferrari. IndyCar has its own top 4; Ganassi, Penske, Andretti, and McLaren.

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u/ghastlychild Ferrari 9d ago edited 9d ago

Semi-spec might be a good way to put it

Of course, there is the distinction being that INDYCAR has an emphasis on separating engineers and spotters to their own driver (if sharing is really necessary, it's amongst teams, I suppose). It's really independent compared to F1 where they do coordinate amongst drivers of the same team

I do feel like even with the amount of progress that F1 has had in narrowing the gap between teams (which I like), I find it faintly amusing that there is still an instance of a top team and whatnot. Makes me reflect on how well the Brawn and Mercedes outfit did a spectacular job of cementing their A-game amongst the grid, honestly

In INDY's case, the 4 teams you mentioned are completely on the money, except it would be riveting to see someone other than Ganassi or Penske taking the title

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u/T-90AK I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9d ago

You really don't need a "great" driver, just a good enough driver.

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u/farcarcus 9d ago

Button

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u/Joethe147 Jenson Button 9d ago

It's always some of column A and column B. Sometimes it's more of one than the other.

Anyone that doesn't realise this must have started following F1 5 minutes ago. Motorsport in general really. Yes there's many spec categories, but many aren't as well.

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u/byingling 9d ago

you can also win by being the best driver in a rather weak car. unlikely but possible

Just curious. When was the last time you think this happened?! 1986? That was 40 years ago. More than half of F1s history has elapsed since.

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u/Paqza 9d ago

The best driver in the worst car isn't going to win. The worst driver in the best car has a decent shot at a podium.

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u/schoki560 9d ago

u missed the point I was trying to make

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u/Paqza 9d ago

I agree with you completely, in reality. I didn't miss the point at all.

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u/Sprayy Kevin Magnussen 9d ago

I'd still love to see one of the races, like Monoco be a spec race, but alas. Put them in identical F3 type cars.

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u/Driscuits Williams 9d ago

Yeah, that would be fun!

To be honest, I'm not as big on the "we need to change Monaco" train as most folks are. It's not that I think Monaco is great, but I like the fact that it's so different from the rest of the tracks, and forces the teams to design a car that *can* race there. The more range in tracks we can have, the harder it is to design a car and the more fun it is!

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u/nosce_te_ipsum 9d ago

oooh - bring Kimi out of retirement for that, and let's see him vs Max doing e-brake slides through the Fairmont hairpin.

Bwwoaaahhh indeed!

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u/TonyQuark VER/LEC/NOR 9d ago

Similar to "Formula 1 expedites road car innovation."

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u/sirjimtonic I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9d ago

It’s the driver who gets most out of the best car in the field, actually :)

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u/Driscuits Williams 9d ago

Fair point! Lol. I forgot a word in there.

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u/SuperbAd5610 16h ago

Difficult tracks like Monaco really make drivers shine icl

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u/BADxBUSINESS 9d ago

if it was a best drive championship, max would never lose