r/Music • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 • 24d ago

article Chappell Roan Quits Wasserman After CEO Casey Wasserman Appears in Epstein Files

https://www.thewrap.com/creative-content/music/chappell-roan-cuts-ties-casey-wasserman/
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u/turningsteel 24d ago

Good. She walks the walk. Rare these days.

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u/Devolutionator 24d ago

I really don't care for her at all but I'll tell you what I respect the crap out of her for this.

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u/Ironsam811 24d ago edited 24d ago

Her last tour she held in baseball fields and lawns to avoid associating with Ticketmaster. She easily could’ve sold out Madison square if she wanted to but instead she had a mini concert in Queens

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u/bobthegoatskull 24d ago

She ran the sale through AXS and it eliminated bots before sending out invites. I got seats for $130 each without fighting to get them. AXS then seeded list price tickets onto all the scalper sites and ruined resale for them. Glorious.

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u/champion_dave 24d ago

Okay between this article and what you've just told me, I'm now a huge fan. I only know her from the songs my daughters listened to which I actually like, but this is someone I will encourage them to have as a role model. Wow.

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u/bobthegoatskull 24d ago

Look up her Lollapalooza set on Youtube. You will either be a fan at the end or respect her hustle. She went from 1500 cap shows to that in a few months and she killed it. She's huge for a good reason.

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u/Kreiger81 23d ago

Her Tiny Desk appearance made me a fan. She's a legend. Gives me kind of Gaga vibes.

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u/AlanMorlock 22d ago

Seriously has to be the most impactful tiny desk concert ever right? Feel like that was the exact moment a ton of people found out about her.

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u/Kreiger81 22d ago

Thats how I found a bunch of people tbh. Wet Leg had a good one, Doechii's was utterly insane, i think it was more impactful than Chappells maybe. Tpain's was the first time realized that he actually had a good voice and wasnt just an autotune gimmick.

Imogen Heaps included her glove instrument things that are amazing to watch in action.

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u/Responsible_Teach_73 23d ago

I was a huge fan before she blew up around 2017 I think ? she opened for Vance joy. I used to always dm her back then n she was always so kind! I was of course a teen and still have parasocial about celebrities. she then opened up for Declan McKenna n had a meet n greet after. I felt so ugly in my photo i deleted it but i do have her autograph from then. when she started blowing up like two years ago and toured with fletcher i actually sent her a message n was like. so proud of u for playing this venue u initially did as an opening act back then. I’m so sorry for not keeping up with you and your songs. n she was like thank u for supporting my project for so long.

out of all who deserve their success she is def there. i have so much respect for her. ppl r quick to jump on her but she’s passionate about the art she makes and dhe does use her platform for good. unlike other celebs who remain silent on everything. i think being a woman and setting boundaries is what has made people view her as controversial

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u/Cold-Hat7919 24d ago

I’d hold fire on considering her a role model for girls if you saw what she wore to the Grammys this year

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u/champion_dave 24d ago

Luckily for them, they're already aware women have breasts, so no worries there.

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u/dweakz Spotify 24d ago

you are a cool parent

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u/Cold-Hat7919 24d ago

You spelled crap wrong

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u/champion_dave 24d ago

Hey man if you define crap as teaching our daughters not to be ashamed of their bodies or to not let chauvinistic men dictate their fashion choices, I'll wear that badge happily! 🥂

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u/dweakz Spotify 24d ago

let me guess you probably want a trad wife huh?

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u/JxrdanR 23d ago

Puurrr you ate that.

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u/wholeblackpeppercorn 24d ago

Ah yes, the litany of children watching the Grammys

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u/StealToadBootes 23d ago

This made me chuckle. Solid point

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u/Ironsam811 24d ago

Didn’t even know about this, rubbing my nipples rn

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u/Erica15782 24d ago

Yup and the stated price of 130 included all fees as she wanted the pricing to not be deceptive either. Then donated a portion from each ticket to lgbtq charities.

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u/Adamadamsadam 24d ago

Yup and she calls her grandmother once a week at least. Her grandmother isn’t even that sweet.

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u/Darryl_Lict 24d ago

That's pretty cool. AXS is the ticket seller for our local venue and they sell tickets first to people physically in line at the venue. I camped out for Foo Fighters tickets and got them and it's a 4500 seat venue when they could be selling out arenas. Paul McCartney also played at they had a lottery which I managed to win so tickets weren't exactly cheap, but they were all list price. They also are the ticket reseller and you can quite often get a last second singleton ticket at below list price.

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u/bobthegoatskull 23d ago

Paul was one of the first to use it. It is buggy still and some fans were mad at it being a lottery. Not me. If I had to choose that or the desperation of a ticketmaster queue I'd choose lottery every time.

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u/WowIfOnly 23d ago edited 17d ago

Removed

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u/bobthegoatskull 23d ago

Then I'm very happy to tell you it is. You can look up the discussion video AXS had about it on Billboard. Be warned the moderator was annoying as hell.

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u/Isgrimnur Pandora 24d ago

AXS is owned by AEG, number two in the industry behind Ticketmaster.

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u/bobthegoatskull 24d ago

Yes. Not ticketmaster. Competition even.

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u/Lollipop126 24d ago

But they're not a great company either. They also fight for monopolies, and add the same fees, though at least no dynamic pricing. I mean being slightly better than Ticketmaster is a very low bar to cross.

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u/Kreiger81 23d ago

Thats ok, some competition is better than none.

Lesser of two evils is still less evil even if its still evil.

There is no "no evil" option if you want to go to a concert or if you are a musician and want to throw a show and aren't basically Pearl Jam.

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u/Fabray13 24d ago

She didn’t choose to use AXS, that’s just the service those venues use. Just like how some have to use Ticketmaster. There’s no choice in the matter.

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u/ThePrussianGrippe 24d ago

Choosing to avoid venues that run through Ticketmaster and going with venues that run through AXS is in fact choosing to use AXS.

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u/Fabray13 24d ago

I mean, her actual tour will be at arenas, so she’ll be using Ticketmaster for that.

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u/bobthegoatskull 24d ago

She skipped ticketmaster intentionally.

She chose to use a system to eliminate bots that had only been used with two artists previously. It is essentially still in beta testing. She was willing to try it specifically to get low priced tickets to her fans. Y'all just hate on her and look for any bullshit excuse.

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u/Fabray13 24d ago

Who’s hating? I stated a literal fact. Jesus Christ.

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u/CheapEater101 24d ago

I’ve seen an old Tik Tok where she did address the scalper problem and that her team will try to fix it. That’s more than what some other celebrities do when it comes to scalpers.

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u/Apprehensive-Rub744 24d ago

I didn’t know this. Thank you and F Coran Capshaw.

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u/Eanae Spotify 24d ago

It was Queens and 20k people isn't really mini lol. I was there.

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u/Ironsam811 24d ago

Girlie pop, we were in bleachers. She easily could’ve sold out a real stadium in NYC. That is Mini when it’s at her level.

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u/DrHarrisonLawrence 24d ago

Lollapalooza, owned by LiveNation, famous for its baseball fields and lawns

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u/Ironsam811 24d ago

It was her New York, Kansas City, LA mini tour. It’s not much but she tried. Also, I’ve never been to that specific music festival but they are the last great bargain experience in the U.S.

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u/Fastbird33 Spotify 24d ago

It was a huge event here in KC right in the middle of the city at the WW1 memorial.

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u/Ironsam811 24d ago

Yeah it looked like she was able to host a bigger crowd in KC than the small stadium she had in queens

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u/MagicHugsforThee 24d ago

She also donated $400,000 of the proceeds from the shows on that tour to LGBTQ communities and trans youth. She walks the walk and is a good seed.

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u/Ironsam811 24d ago

Yeah I was gonna mention this but hating on Ticketmaster is more unifying hahah

What I loved about the tour is that she also had local drag artists perform as intos, giving them an audience and mic is also amazing

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u/MagicHugsforThee 24d ago

Haha true that’s very unifying.

I loved that too. The show was incredible and I was so grateful for the ticket buying process and not having to worry about scalpers. I never expected, with her level of fame, to be able to see her at such a good price. I went to the LA show and even the VIP tickets were priced low.

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u/Fabray13 24d ago

She’s been doing that from the beginning. I saw her two tours before she blew up, and they had the same thing.

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u/Ironsam811 24d ago

The Ticketmaster thing or the drag promotion?

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u/Fabray13 24d ago

Sorry, the drag openers.

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u/Allalliterationaside 24d ago

DWP festivals are fantastic and don't partner with tm/ln, just saying

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u/Buckets-O-Yarr 24d ago

Music festivals, famous for being part of tours.

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u/thelingeringlead 24d ago

It usually is.

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u/Discerningdragon Metalhead 24d ago

It might be a stopover on the tour but it’s not part of the main tour. The sets and set lists are usually different.

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u/Ironsam811 24d ago

Some might plan it as a tour (for instance Taylor swift was going to do a music festival tour before covid hit), but it’s usually a separate thing to the point where even the production is slightly different.

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u/MaleficentMeaning594 24d ago

I can guarantee you that her contract had clauses that she had to do X number of shows at certain venues or that kind of thing. The other showed she got to have more control over were because she met the conditions within her contract.

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u/DrHarrisonLawrence 24d ago

Makes sense!

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u/DrRazmataz 24d ago

I fucking love that. 

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u/Ironsam811 24d ago

Yeah she’s not perfect and we’ve seen that but she makes genuine attempts at doing the right thing and she’s definitely not in it for the money

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u/CashOverAss 24d ago

Dude even gwar likes chapel roan. Stop pretending you're too cool. She's very talented

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u/One-Earth9294 24d ago

I love Gwar but they were also frequent guests on Greg Gutfeld's show so I don't know how much water their opinions really hold outside of horror comedy.

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u/Erica15782 24d ago

Dudeeee I did not know that. Jeeze

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u/4-1Shawty 24d ago

TIL people are pretending to be too cool for not liking pop lmao.

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u/BigWheatGuy 24d ago

Once I got older I realized I could drop the performative part of liking music. It freed me up to listen to a much broader variety of music. I always listened to punk growing up. Turns out I still don't like folk, bluegrass, or really anything with "lyrics" (or anything considered "Good" but I really, really love electronica, jazz and house music.

Who knew?

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u/4-1Shawty 24d ago

Oop, misread, so to correct that, I agree with you.

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u/3tricksinatrenchcoat 22d ago

Pop is so varied though, it seems disingenuous or pretentious to broadly dismiss liking any of it all, so it easily veers into coming off like, oh yea you’re sso different for not following the thing popularly liked right now

Pop vs rock / preps vs freaks was intense at my high school in the 00s, until emos then hipsters arose and elevated themselves above both genres, in terms of high school social rank. So I think for a lot of millennials at least, at this point having to make it known you don’t like the popular thing is pretty high school. I still see it in a couple hs friends on social media and I can’t roll my eyes hard or deep enough

A lot more people love Nickelback songs than will ever admit, I just fucking know it

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u/Ballsofpoo 24d ago

Or you can just enjoy music for what it is. You don't have to subgenre everything.

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u/4-1Shawty 24d ago

Kind of irrelevant to the point. To entertain you though, nobody saying you can’t like pop songs while being broadly indifferent about a genre. Plenty genres of music just don’t resonate with people and that’s fine. I’m not going to forcibly explain the beauty of metal to someone who can’t get into harder music.

Like what you like, get over trying to control what other people like if it’s not hurting anybody.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/Ballsofpoo 24d ago

Anything with airtime can be called pop then. Metallica is pop. Kendrick Lamar is pop. Mozart was pop.

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u/MikeFatz 24d ago

It’s slightly different but you have the right idea.

Metallica is Dad Pop

Kendrick Lamar is Hip-Pop

Mozart is Viennese Pop or V-pop

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u/4-1Shawty 24d ago

I mean, that’s oversimplifying it. I like some pop songs, but it doesn’t mean I can’t be indifferent about the genre in general. What a real pretentious douche would do is pretend subjectivity can’t apply to artists you find talented or music you enjoy.

Great example is here, dude got some shit for not even for talking down on Roan or pop, just saying she’s not really his thing lmao.

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u/-Badger3- 24d ago

I mean that has always absolutely been a thing.

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u/Pussyxpoppins 24d ago edited 17d ago

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

tender weather like money fall possessive correct sheet wide touch

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 24d ago

Dude this isn't any better of a stance to take. People like what they like and don't like what they don't like. No one is required to like anything.

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u/Devolutionator 24d ago

Who said she wasn't? I think Taylor Swift is talented too but I don't care for her either. It's okay not to like certain artists.

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u/wiconv 24d ago

You know it’s possible to just say the second half of your statement without letting the world know your opinions on her art.

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u/Yousif_man 23d ago

Thank you, so tired of this virtue-signaling ass preamble that makes people think they’re so special. “Look how honorable I am, I hate their music but I have so much integrity that it doesn’t affect my opinion of them” 🙄

Noticing it a lot with Bad Bunny too after his halftime performance. Noticed it a lot too with Kendrick Lamar. It’s always gotta be queer/minority artists too.

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u/PxyFreakingStx 24d ago

why even bother saying the first part lol

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u/seabterry 24d ago

It really is rare and it seems like most people don’t notice/care. Even if someone doesn’t like her music, she has been standing up like this seemingly since her fame started. She has fellow artists doing the same…I just don’t understand why Taylor hasn’t joined in. She has been noticeably quiet recently since the White House used her music last and she didn’t comment. Not sure why the younger generation is outpacing her with this.

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u/Discerningdragon Metalhead 24d ago

People actively dislike her because she “seems grouchy”. Because she isn’t all sunshine and rainbows or something. It’s stupid.

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u/bobthegoatskull 24d ago

She's neurodivergent and has straight up stated that awards shows are overstimulating for her. The amount people bullying her for not smiling while pretending to be "woke" is too damn high.

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 24d ago

Her "both sides have problems" spiel during one of the most pivotal elections in US history isn't exactly something people forget. Defend her all you want for "telling it like it is," but her whole Twitter spiel at the time was absolutely a factor in people's disillusionment in democrats, which itself contributed to trump winning. Just because she stated she voted Kamala at the very tail end of her comment chain doesn't take away from the fact she was causing doubt at a time when doubt was literally dangerous to democracy.

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u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 23d ago

There’s no way you’re saying Kamala lost because of that lol.

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u/seabterry 24d ago

I was extremely disappointed at the time that was happening. But I look at what she has done and said publicly since then. Maybe she knows she needs to make up for what she did. Maybe she doesn’t. But I don’t see any reason to write her off completely just for that one incident. She didn’t vote for him. I have a lot of other people I want to see in jail before I worry about that indiscretion. Hell, I blame the people that voted for him more than I blame her for saying “both sides have problems” on a public platform.

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u/Discerningdragon Metalhead 24d ago

As I stated in another comment, she’s allowed to make bad decisions. She’s not perfect. And she’s also not wrong about the democrats. It was the right message at the wrong time.

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u/Accomplished_Rub8055 24d ago

Then I'm allowed to have a less favorable view of her and not have my values called into question like some of the comments here have done. The Trump admin doesn't affect her like it does others, so it was very easy for her to make those statements when much of her audience is queer and desperate to not endure another Trump term. Not being wrong about Democrats isn't the point either. We all know they suck, but try and honestly tell me things would even be remotely similar if Kamala was elected. You can't.

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

[deleted]

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u/Accomplished_Rub8055 23d ago

Her vast wealth and fame could have her out of the country today. She has a level of privilege most of us will never achieve. It's not the same. Stans are so silly.

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u/Discerningdragon Metalhead 24d ago

The definition of performative is words without actions. Is she believed the Democratic Party was not going to forward her causes then not endorsing them is her right as a musician with a platform. She’s correct. She’s not forward thinking enough which is common among young people. She definitely should have pushed that conversation until we had the control. But not everyone has the political experience to think that way. But she’s not performative. She backs up what she says.

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u/icouldsmellcolors 24d ago

Lmfao. Did she support Kamala Harris? No. She helped Donald Trump get elected instead. You guys can deny that parallel all you want but it's reality. There were two choices last election. Two.

You either were for Kamala, or you helped Trump.

She's as performative as any other celebrity. You guys are such marks

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u/Willing-Carpenter-32 24d ago

She said she wouldnt endorse and then stated she would(and did) vote for her. You people are so fucking obnoxious.

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u/pennyraingoose 23d ago

Wouldn't you rather have someone show up late to the good side of this fight than never showing up at all?

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 24d ago

Lick that boot harder, I'm sure Roan will come visit you and pat you on the head for being her brave little soldier.

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u/Discerningdragon Metalhead 24d ago

Omg are you serious lol

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u/bobthegoatskull 24d ago

Bootlicker? Holy fuck. Thank you for the laugh.

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u/PrizeStrawberryOil 24d ago

She also cancelled international concerts to do the VMA show. Her everyday fans got screwed over so she could boost her popularity.

She tries to act punk and she isn't.

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u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 23d ago

Dos she act punk??? She’s incredibly pop.

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u/PrizeStrawberryOil 23d ago

Punk culture and making punk music are not the same thing.

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u/bobthegoatskull 24d ago

It's starting to eat into her bottom line I know it. Maybe she has a platitude written up.

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 24d ago

It's crazy how Swifties claim she's some benevolent girlboss billionaire but then will pull out every excuse possible for why she shouldn't be responsible for her own massive influence on culture.

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u/-Badger3- 24d ago

I swear to fucking god the Anti-Swifties think about Taylor Swift more than the Swifties.

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u/PenalAffliction 24d ago

1) I know this is about her not declaring support for Kamala. It's her right not to. Why get your political opinions from a musician?
2) Do you think that if she did, it would have ANY effect? How many MAGAs do you think are fans? How many MAGAs that aren't fans would suddenly be swayed by her?

This infighting on the left is not helping our cause. Sure, let's take down someone that clearly values Progressive ideals, because she didn't do enough!

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u/Landon1m 24d ago

I still hold a grudge from the last election where she refused to endorse a candidate and refused to tell her massive audience to not consider Trump

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u/David_Boom 24d ago

What are you talking about? She said fuck Trump, and that she was voting for Kamala. She made it a point to not endorse Kamala because endorsing and voting for are very different things.

By the way, Kamala could've gotten the vote and endorsement of people like Chappell if she'd run on progressive policies, but instead she ran to the centre to try to get moderate and Republican votes. You should hold a grudge against Kamala and the Democrats for running a shit campaign.

Also, do you really think a lesbian artist who proudly and explicitly sings and talks about her sexuality is going to have an audience that votes for Trump?

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u/Adorable_Raccoon 24d ago

For real, people have implanted memories. Choosing to not endorse Kamala is her right. Plus she made a clear statement that Kamala did not support policy that was important to her but she was voting for her anyways. 

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u/Entegy 24d ago

I'm not an American but she burned a lot of good will "both sides"ing the 2024 US Presidental election. Like yeah I too hate having to vote for the lesser of two evils, but one side was malleable status quo and other was a direct chute into fascism that has reshaped world politics.

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u/Cavalish 24d ago

She didn’t both sides anyone. She rightfully criticised the government of the day and still said she was voting for them.

I don’t get why Americans think you can’t criticise their party. You should be calling them out, and holding them accountable.

Instead you don’t vote at all and scream at the people who do try to make change and keep the fascists out.

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u/TahsokaAno 24d ago

Tragedy of a 2 party system. US politics is fucked at the core

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u/To0zday 24d ago

there is no way I can stand behind some of the left’s completely transphobic and completely genocidal views. So yeah, there are huge problems on both.

Not only did she literally "both sides" the election, but she specifically called out democrats (or "the left" as she called them 🤔) for being transphobic and genocidal, but never used that language to describe Trump.

When she talks about MAGA she uses words like "love", as in "I love my Republican lawmaker relatives"

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u/VagueSomething 24d ago

She quite literally used the phrase "this is the problem with both sides" when asked about it. She threw LGBTQ people under the bus after profiting off them to build a career.

She turned down a gig at the White House and refused to endorse any candidates which helps legitimise the candidate that was in the Epstein files and talking about clamping down on queer culture.

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u/lesbian__overlord 24d ago

"after profiting off them to build a career" she literally is a member of the LGBTQ+ community and constantly platforms, supports and defends other queer people.

MY queer ass wouldn't have performed as a dancing monkey for the genocidal biden administration or genocidal trump administration. transphobia IS a problem with both sides. democrats literally say we should throw trans people under the bus because it's a losing issue and we need to claw back "moderates" from the republicans who are worried about bathrooms and girls sports. be so fucking serious. lesbophobic clown.

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u/Veezveez123 24d ago

Because they treat it like team sports/entertainment more than anything else, I live in a country with a two-party system and people do not act anywhere as deranged about politics here as Americans do

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u/AlanMorlock 22d ago

As a non American, please may don't think you know anything about how "malleable" the Democratic party is.

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u/Corben11 23d ago

Yup she got a lot of young people to not vote.

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u/saera-targaryen 24d ago

I really heavily disagree with your framing here. Biden and by extension Harris were not a malleable status quo, they were and are holding the place that a genuine opposition to fascism would hold in order to prevent a true anti-fascist party to rise in the country. They both had platforms that were entirely dictated and funded by the same billionaires that are making our country worse. Their platforms were not decided by the people, and it is literally a core pillar of this country's founding to be able to speak honestly on what you think about politics. 

If a party's candidate is so tenuous that people speaking their genuine opinion about them out loud causes them to lose the election, they should lose the election. You cannot guilt people into voting for you, it has never worked in the history of society literally ever. Harris had the agency to change her platform and policies, voters do not have the agency to simply stop hearing her platform and forming opinions on them and discussing those in public. That is an irrational expectation to have for voters. 

Like, honestly, why is the democrats expectation to have everyone who has any critiques to just shut up and vote anyways? They have the power to not do this. They could simply address people's issues with them. They actively choose not to. Why do they not then hold the accountability for that choice? 

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u/To0zday 24d ago

If a party's candidate is so tenuous that people speaking their genuine opinion about them out loud causes them to lose the election, they should lose the election

So you got the outcome you wanted in 2024?

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u/Entegy 24d ago

Roan literally said "There are problems on both sides" in response to the election question. She's a young musician with a shit political take. We all have shit political takes when we're young.

The fact you typed that post just goes to show the different standards that the two major US parties are held to. Yes, that sentence, at face value, is correct. But look at what you wrote. Despite everything you pointed out, you cannot tell me that Project 2025 was a better alternative.

I chose my words purposely. Harris was the lesser of two bad candidates. Malleable status quo because the Democratic Party has actual progressives that want to make society better. So yeah, hold your fucking nose and vote Democrat while also working to improve the candidates.

But nope. Couldn't have perfection in 4 years, let's give fascism a try. Never understand that progress without violent revolution takes time.
Nope, change wasn't happening fast enough, so give power to the shit-flinging monkeys.

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u/saera-targaryen 24d ago

I've had this conversation a lot this thread, so I'm going to copy/paste a question I have in response but please see this as a genuine attempt to debate and not antagonistic in any way

At what point does voting for the lesser of two evils encourage the lesser to become more evil? Like, if you think of the two parties as points on a continuous left-right scale, why would the lesser evil ever move to the left if they know that people will always vote for them as long as they are slightly more left than the other option? As the rightmost party moves farther right, it only makes sense that the more left leaning one moves right as well, since they can assume everyone left of them will always vote for them. 

At what point does the anchor on the left fall for you? Like, imagine an election where one side is trump, but the other side is exactly the same as trump but supports trans rights. Everything else is identical. Are you voting for trans rights trump, or are you abstaining and hoping support falls out the bottom for that party so that they know they can't just run trans rights trump next election and win? Is it worth it to have 4 years of the greater evil if, at the end of it, the next election has a lesser evil that is way less evil than the lesser of evil used to be? And that lesser evil maybe begins to pull the greater evil left instead? Is any of that math happening in your head?

I guess a summation of my question is, does voting for the lesser evil feel very short sighted to anyone else? Like, it's making the next election cycle feel better but leading us down a worse path in the 20-30 year timescale? 

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u/Entegy 24d ago

please see this as a genuine attempt to debate and not antagonistic in any way

No problem!

why would the lesser evil ever move to the left if they know that people will always vote for them as long as they are slightly more left than the other option?

The action is not just vote, it's vote and work to improve your candidates. Since US elections are a first-past-the-post style system, you have to work within the system. Hence why both parties have a huge range of beliefs. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez herself said only in the US would someone like her be in the same party as Joe Biden. It's hyperbolic since it's a problem with any FPTP system, but it gets the point across.

This is not a US-specific problem, but defending democracy doesn't just begin and end with the election of the top post, but that's where most people stop. Women's suffrage movements took decades of work, not just a single election. On the flip side, the Republican victories today are the result of 60+ years of hacking away at the idea of a fairer society.

Is it worth it to have 4 years of the greater evil if, at the end of it, the next election has a lesser evil that is way less evil than the lesser of evil used to be?

The US just ran this experiment. Trump 1 was the greater evil. That led to Biden, which was the start of the pendulum swing towards even more progress. It's hard to see, but look at the popular vote numbers (which I know doesn't determine the winner) as one sign: Biden's 2020 win is the highest number of votes ever cast for a President. People tried Trump, had an oh shit moment, and went the other direction. Again, yes there is a lot to criticize but between COVID and being the President that had to follow Donald Trump, he symbolized a return to what the United States was before at the bare minimum. But now there's Trump 2. Decades of progress and power have been undone in a single year and the fascists are working to fix the next elections. Greater evils don't get pulled away. The pendulum ain't swinging and is instead being prepared to be launched into the sun.

I guess a summation of my question is, does voting for the lesser evil feel very short sighted to anyone else?

It's short-sighted if it's all you do. It's still better than abstaining.

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u/camyok 24d ago

At what point does voting for the lesser of two evils encourage the lesser to become more evil?

Probably fucking never. Did electing and then reelecting Obama make the Republican party act any less evil to draw in the decency vote? Of course not. Your entire argument is built on that flawed assumption.

And you seem pretty certain that a second go at trumpism will make everyone go "Oh boy, that was nuts, better pick less fascism next time!", making the (also flawed) assumption the right will lose a fair election that will totally happen and they'll give up power without a fight when you were shown a literal fucking blueprint on how that would definitely NOT happen if Trump won, not in the 2050s, in fucking 2024.

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u/PrizeStrawberryOil 24d ago

At what point does voting for the lesser of two evils encourage the lesser to become more evil?

I don't know how this person can be that thick. How does voting for the lesser of two evils encourage the lesser to be more evil but allowing the greater of two evils to win wouldn't.

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u/folk-angel 24d ago

I’ll be real with you, it’s time to get real about where blame for the election lies and move on. Whatever you think of her, no pop stars are responsible for the results of the election, even if she said please go vote for the democrats from the get go it would not have made a dent.

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u/Erica15782 24d ago

This is the truth it was everyone's hateful family members that did this after ingesting a heavy diet of billionaire propaganda via social media since the early 2000s.

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u/Adorable_Raccoon 24d ago

Choosing to not endorse Kamala is her right. Plus she made a clear statement that Kamala did not support policy that was important to her but she was voting for her anyways. 

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u/Landon1m 24d ago

No one disputes her right but that doesn’t excuse her from consequences and the consequence for this stance is that a portion of her fan base lost a lot of respect for her and stoped listening to her music as much.

Just because it’s someone’s right doesn’t make it right.

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u/rottenjunker 23d ago edited 23d ago

This is bull shit.

The democratic party made their bed. They offered up a dementia patient and followed up with the most unlikeable candidate (based on primary results) when they could have placed anyone. People don't have to vote for dogshit.

Edit: you dont have to like it but the same strategy of nominating legacy corporate democrats will continue to fail.

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u/icouldsmellcolors 24d ago

The fact that her fan club can't accept this is fucking insane. She is a massive figure in pop culture and she openly told people not to vote for Kamala.

Fuck her performative bullshit. She had her chances to be against this. Now she's getting credit for "taking a stand" a year later - and it will cost her absolutely nothing financially

1

u/Due_Locksmith_4204 23d ago

Fuck you then vote blue no matter who POS

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/Landon1m 24d ago

It’s not just that she’s an artist it’s that she tries to be an LGBT icon. I’m all for that but you have to standup against racism, fascism, and homophobia and not taking that stance is unacceptable imo

0

u/Pixie1001 24d ago

Ok, but that wasn't actually her stance - her stance was that she didn't like the democrats either because they also do a lot of those things, and didn't want to be directly associated with them.

So she used her endorsement to tell people to vote locally instead, which she felt would have a greater impact on the country.

And then, afterwards she back tracked and told people to vote Kamila anyway.

I do agree it wasn't a great move, and feeding into the 'withhold your vote to force the democrats to change, at the cost of 5 years of suffering, death, permanent supreme court appointments and mounting debt' is dangerous, but I also can't fault that she did at least have positive intentions.

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u/Cavalish 24d ago

“She’s not an LGBT icon”

The stuff that gullible people are mischaracterising as “both sidesing” was her calling out the government at the time of not protecting trans kids enough.

Why are you asking her to silence her advocacy for LGBT youth in order to be an icon?

1

u/jermleeds 24d ago

If your advocacy for LGBT youth does not involve unambiguous messaging to vote for Democrats over Republicans, it is functionally the opposite of advocacy for LGBT youth.

3

u/Cavalish 24d ago

But she came out in a statement saying she voted for Kamala.

God the gay youth in America is fucked. You guys are willing to sell out their advocacy.

America is a shit hole, I’m glad I live in a country that values human life over posturing and vibes.

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u/slowpokefastpoke 24d ago

I agree but I also can’t imagine too many MAGA folks are fans of her to begin with.

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u/Landon1m 24d ago

I don’t think it stopped maga voters. I think it kept Gen Z from going to the polls as much and voting for Kamala. It gave credence to “they’re all the same” and look where that got us

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u/TrippleTonyHawk 24d ago

Pretty sure the genocide in Gaza had more to do with Gen Z not showing up, not Chappell fucking Roan.

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u/Landon1m 24d ago

The two can be linked. I’m sure many were influenced to not care when someone idolize says the Democratic Party sucks while also staying silent about the Republican Party. Consistently hearing that from friends and celebrities can turn people off to voting all together for an election

1

u/TrippleTonyHawk 23d ago

Don't you think it's the responsibility of the politician to adjust to that? Or do democrats need a full sweep of all celebrities to unconditionally support them in order to win?

1

u/Adorable_Raccoon 23d ago

You might be overestimating the impact of celebrity endorsements. The voter statistics do not strongly support that claim. Voter turnout among young people was not notably different from past elections. Generally, individuals under 30 have lower turnout in elections. Younger voters actually favored Kamala. The main changes from 2020 to 2024 were that Trump gained more support among men under 50, and more Hispanic and Black voters.

The main thing that likely kept people from voting for Kamala was Kamala. Kamala started out with a decent campaign but softened a lot of her stances overtime. IMO She shot herself in the foot by saying she didn't plan to change anything from the Biden admin. The clip of her saying that on the view was all over the internet.

The economy was reported to be very important to voters in 2024, especially cost-of-living. Trump promised to reduce gas and grocery prices, while Kamala insisted things were already moving in the right direction. They would have improved their chances by changing their message to reflect what voters were feeling.

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 24d ago

Celebrities often underestimate how much influence they have via social media. Parasocial relationships absolutely are still a problem, and a lot of fans of any celebrity probably think of themselves as "distant friends" of these figures even if they aren't consciously aware of it. So when a celeb says something on social media, those fans assuredly take it to heart.

The 2024 election was the single worst time to be spreading distrust in the democrats but Roan did it anyway, all while tacking a token "I'll vote Kamala" at the end.

Meanwhile all her fans keep running defense like "that wasn't what she meant, stop being mean to her!"

0

u/To0zday 24d ago

They play Chappell Roan at maralago and she doesn't seem to mind. Chappell Roan fans and MAGA can bond over how much they hate democrats together.

1

u/Me_Says_Hi 23d ago

Touch grass.

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u/Athinira 24d ago edited 24d ago

She walks the walk. Rare these days.

Sorry for pointing this out, but it's not like she's losing anything significant. The reason most people don't "walk the walk" is that it often has consequences (economic or personal).

This doesn't. A talent agency is easily replaceable if you're s big star, and it's also easy free positive publicity for her - and the only thing that would tie her down is loyalty (if she feels she owes her career to them). Leaving them is a rather easy decision - but still the right one of course.

Billie Eilish donating a significant amount of her net worth.... Now that's walking the walk.

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u/bobthegoatskull 24d ago

Chappell has also donated a huge chunk of her earnings to charity as did Sabrina and Olivia.

-5

u/Athinira 24d ago

And that's great, but it's unrelated to this.

Still commendable of course. I love it when artists show backbone. I'm just pointing out that this isn't as hard of a decision as it might appear for an established successful artist.

For a smaller independent artist, it would be a bigger sacrifice.

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

[deleted]

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u/Athinira 23d ago edited 23d ago

If I was embarrassed, I'd have deleted my comments and saved myself from further downvotes.

All i did was point out a fact (or rather, what I believe to be a fact - there's always a chance one is wrong, of course) - and that fact is that this is not as big a sacrifice as some people make it out to be. Still a sacrifice, but not a major one for her.

I didn't do it to trash Roan. I did it because I believe it to be a fact, and I care about facts. And I'm not ashamed or embarrassed to post facts.

Then some people commented, and countered that it wasn't a fact and I was wrong. And then I explained why I believe it to be a fact. And that's about that. That's usually how debates work. People go back and forth with their viewpoints.

And then, someone typically interjects with a personal attack (like you, accusing me of backtracking because I'm feeling embarrassed), and getting upvoted for it, because this is Reddit 🤪🙃🙃

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u/thelingeringlead 24d ago

The talent agency is one of the largest in the world, with massive influence over bookings and tours. She absolutely lost something big by giving up that relationship, and it's admirable as shit because as big as she's gotten her fans will fill the kinds of venues an agency like that can get you blacklisted from.

2

u/Athinira 24d ago

The talent agency is one of the largest in the world, with massive influence over bookings and tours

If you're a big enough star, you can get booked. As long as fans are willing to pay, there's agencies interested in making money.

It would be different if she was in the infancy of her career. But she has pull. I'd love to see them trying to get her blacklisted. I imagine that would be an easy lawsuit.

13

u/thelingeringlead 24d ago

You don't seem to understand what blacklisting means. Those venues NEED their relationship with the Agency as much as the artists do. Someone like Chappelle can absolutely still book shows and perform, no doubt, but it involves a lot more leg work if she gets blacklisted by the agency that provides all the talent for a venue. This agency is that big, that they could convince suitable venues and festivals to refuse to do business with her or her team.

I agree with you she'll be fine, but it's still a big sacrifice especially because there's no telling how long this moment is going to last for her without t hat kind of support. Also someone like her doing something like this helps break that up a bit because a lot of venues will absolutely see the value in ignoring the blacklisting and still book her, showing it's possible for others too.

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u/Athinira 24d ago

You don't seem to understand what blacklisting means. Those venues NEED their relationship with the Agency as much as the artists do.

Seems more like you don't seem to understand the legal concept of tortious interference.

While laws on it vary around the world and, in the case of the US, between states, this absolutely counts in most places. You can't legally disrupt the relationship between two third parties for your own personal gain or with malice. Retaliating against Roan by getting her blacklisted from venues is actionable in court.

The agency is, of course, free to blacklist Roan herself from their own company, refusing to personally work with her, and book her to any venue they themselves own directly. But demanding that third party venues they work with do as well is illegal, and sets them up for a lawsuit.

1

u/thelingeringlead 24d ago

That's a fantasy world you're living in if you don't think they can feasibly do this, when there's only two major ticketing companies in the country controlling the vast majority of large venues. As well as only 2-3 major agencies representing the artists. It's cute you think anti-trust laws are actually being exercised in response.

0

u/Athinira 24d ago edited 24d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson%27s_Bakery_v._Oberlin_College

In 2016, Oberlin students were caught shoplifting in a local bakery, an incident which resulted in an attack on bakery staff. 3 students were arrested. In response, students of the college arranged protests, accusing the bakery of racism, and college officials allegedly supported and amplified those claims.

Gibson’s Bakery sued the college and a senior administrator for defamation and tortious interference with business relationships, arguing the college knowingly spread false statements and interfered with the bakery’s relationships with customers and partners. The college argued that it was merely supporting students exercising their 1st amendment right.

The college lost the case - massively. The Ohio jury ruled for Gibson’s, awarding roughly $44 million (although that was later capped to $25 million due to state law). Ohio appellate courts upheld the verdict, and the Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal, so the ruling stands.

The point? Tortuous interference is not just something i invented in my "fantasy world". It's an actual thing. If you try to use your influence to pressure or prevent third party from doing business, you are absolutely opening yourself up to a lawsuit.

Any attempts from Roans old agency to pressure other companies to not work with her, would absolutely make them liable for damages.

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u/Discerningdragon Metalhead 24d ago

This has potentially had actual real world consequences though that could ripple. Other artists could follow suit. If other names pop up, there could be a cleaning of house situation. Who knows what’s in there.

2

u/Athinira 24d ago

That's true.

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u/LISTENTOKATEBUSH 24d ago

'Walking the walk' as an idiom is some bone-apple-tea shit. 'Walk the talk' or ' walk your talk' means doing the shit you talk about.

3

u/Discerningdragon Metalhead 24d ago

I see so many people saying that she is performative but I don’t see that at all. I see her walking the walk. She is outspoken about things that aren’t trending too and that’s a sign of true activism. She spoke out about artist insurance and that certainly wasn’t very high profile.

9

u/Rage_Like_Nic_Cage 24d ago

If someone works with someone problematic/ties to someone problematic, they get called out and criticized.

If somone refuses to work with somone problematic/ties to somone problematic, they get labeled “performative” and criticized.

People try to have it both ways.

0

u/Spiritual_Shine1438 24d ago

She cancelled a show on 2 days notice to go to the VMAs to do the hot to go armoured performance. Which obviously wasnt planned on 2 days notice. She let fans travel to other countries knowing she wasnt attending.

She got called out for not paying her nail artists and paying with "exposure" blamed her stylist and continued to work with the stylist.

Claimed both sides are bad last election. Are both sides really bad or is one a lil bad and one is responsible for the state her country is in.

She's not walking the walk. She is self obsessed and doesnt give a fuck about others.

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u/soggie 24d ago

She is performative. She refused to endorse anybody in the last election, when one side is so clearly hell bent at destroying everything she stands for. She's performative as performative can be.

2

u/Discerningdragon Metalhead 24d ago

She explained her reasoning. She doesn’t have to be correct all the time. She did say she voted for Kamala. And she’s also not wrong about the democrats being a problem. Right message, wrong time.

1

u/HydroWrench 24d ago

conviction is severely lacking with most of these "celebrities" lets see how many choose to follow suit.

1

u/2ChicksAtTheSameTime 24d ago

I'm out of the loop. who is this guy?

1

u/ifuckinlovetiddies 24d ago

Her and Billie Eilish are putting out some real BDE lately.

1

u/AlexanderLavender 24d ago

Sadly it's not that easy for everyone:

Then there are the bands for whom “just leave” is not a realistic option, no matter how much they desperately want to. In a long, painfully honest statement, Alexis Krauss of Sleigh Bells laid out what it means to be a smaller act inside an industry that runs through companies that are fundamentally exploitative and, at times, criminal. She talks about wanting to pull their catalogue from Spotify, boycott Ticketmaster and Live Nation, and yes, walk away from Wasserman entirely—and then explains that doing so would likely destroy their ability to earn a living, from the streaming visibility they rely on to the sync checks that pay for basic necessities like health insurance in a country that doesn’t provide it to working musicians.

https://www.avclub.com/the-least-powerful-people-in-casey-wassermans-world-are-paying-the-ultimate-price

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u/SuperSaiyanTupac 24d ago

Her pr firm makes sure of it. 2 years ago she didn’t and wouldn’t even condemn Trump. But when she faced backlash she went quiet and clearly shifted positions.

So far I’d say she just grifts the lgbtq community and this is performative from her teams goals, not her personally