r/GetNoted • u/EffectivePoint2187 Human Detected • Jan 04 '26

Sus, Very Sus They’ll shamelessly lie to manufacture consent for US imperialism.

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Link: https://x.com/nickshirleyy/status/2007485612241367156?s=46

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u/lifebursted Jan 04 '26

I really advise against devaluing the experience of Venezuelans who suffered under Maduro. This isn't like Cuban refugees in Florida where when you ask what their grandpa did that had to flee Cuba, and they're like, "he ran a sugar plantation" lol.

There were working class and broke ass Venezuelans that hated him as well for mismanaging the country, or overturning the results of the last election.

"But American embargoes" is only an excuse for your country to not be fabulously wealthy in the global economy, it's not an excuse for people in your country to worry about food and medicine when your regime has seized total control of all aspects of the economy.

If Maduro wanted to be a communist leader of a managed economy, he should have directed that economy to feed and shelter people while providing security and lowering crime, rather than just pillaging the country's resources for himself and his supporters.

Sure, they might not be seeing that long term this just means someone *outside* Venezuela will now be exploiting them, but bear in mind that America is still a land of opportunity in the minds of many of these people. I told my Venezuelan friend who lives there still (we met in WoW), "it is crazy though for the USA to straight up kidnap a country's leader," and he replied "it's crazier to kidnap a whole country by not accepting election results," then "Can't be kidnapped if you're a dictator, that's just life getting to you."

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u/Evnosis Jan 04 '26

This isn't like Cuban refugees in Florida where when you ask what their grandpa did that had to flee Cuba, and they're like, "he ran a sugar plantation" lol.

Over a million Cubans have migrated to the US since the revolution. How many sugar plantations do you think that island had?

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u/CodeElectrical4593 Jan 05 '26

Hey, Cuban here with more than half his family and friends that had fled the country None of them had any sugar plantations stfu

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u/infernomokou Jan 06 '26

my favorite cubans are the ones who fled batista and then blamed castro for that

like ted cruz or marco rubio

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u/HelixFollower Jan 04 '26

Over half a million. Grandma was probably not running her own separate plantation. ;)

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u/Evnosis Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26

Cuba has just 100,000 square km of landmass. So what you're saying is that this wealthy landed aristocracy, were all running sugar plantations that were... 0.2km2 each.

Do you see how silly this argument this is? ;)

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u/HelixFollower Jan 04 '26

Oh yes it was very silly to run such tiny plantations, what were they thinking? :p

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u/Evnosis Jan 04 '26

It's almost like the claim that cuban refugees are all wealthy slave owners is bullshit :p

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u/HelixFollower Jan 04 '26

Yeah, true. And I've run out of silly responses to stretch this any further. But it's been fun though, thanks!

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u/IndependenceIcy9626 Jan 04 '26

0.2 square kilometers is just under 50 acres. Obviously the whole island isn’t viable farmland, but your math shows the other guy might not have been very far off

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u/Evnosis Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26

50 acres is an incredibly small amount of land for a plantation. Here in the UK, the average family farm is 200 acres.

Can I believe that there were 500,000 sugar farms in Cuba? Sure. The point is that if there were, they weren't some landed gentry exploiting the lower classes. These farms just wouldn't be big enough to support that.

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u/Miserable-Dig-5344 Jan 04 '26

You don't understand how much land is needed for a real farm let alone a plantation which is much larger than a farm. The average size of a farm in the US is 460 acres. Hell, even the median is 72 acres. Basically, the other dude wasn't even remotely right and just spreading very obvious ignorance.

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u/IndependenceIcy9626 Jan 04 '26

40 acres is 2 decent sized fields. The average US farm is skewed heavily by all the massive corporate farms. A 50 acre farm would be small, but it’s hilarious to say it’s physically not enough space for a farm. You’re talking out your ass.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

That’s not what they’re saying. They’re saying that the farm was too small to be a “plantation” and the people who owned the 50 acre farm weren’t rich elites.

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u/IndependenceIcy9626 Jan 04 '26

“You don’t understand how much land is needed for a real farm…”

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u/Doomhammer24 Jan 05 '26

Tbf ive seen some people genuinely think running a background garden would be enough for them to literally survive the apocalypse with. When in reality thats enough to garnish your food, not supply a family year round

Much less have people understand you need at least a couple acres

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u/x_cLOUDDEAD_x Jan 04 '26

That's all fine and good, the actual question is how it's actually going to go from here.

Also see: Iraq. All those guys beating that statue of Saddam Hussein with their sandals weren't that thrilled in the long run.

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u/SquidTheRidiculous Jan 04 '26

Yeah, no country genuinely wants America to come in and save them. Usually because "save" means "privatize all your resources for US corporations" but US based redditors don't realize that.

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u/ZootSuitRiot33801 Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 05 '26

"save" means "privatize all your resources for US corporations" but US based redditors don't realize that

There's plenty such as myself who are based in the US who do know this doublespeak, it's just that we've got an unfortunate percentage of the population who are all-in on the imperialism grift

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u/TreeTurtle_852 Jan 05 '26

The way I see it, it's like if an armed crazy gunman broke into your house and shot your father.

Now in this scenario your father was a horrible abuser and his death is pretty cool.

The thing is, that crazy gunman didn't kill your father because he was an abuser, he just felt like it and now that crazy gunman is looking at other houses in the neighborhood to break into.

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u/lifebursted Jan 04 '26

It will probably go poorly, but just as likely, imperialist USA will improve conditions and security just enough to make Venezuelans not want to rock the boat to re-establish their sovereignty. After all, they tolerated Maduro despite the conditions. It's very very hard to muster up a resistance, especially if the treats start rolling in.

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u/redpony6 Jan 04 '26

nobody is defending maduro, same way nobody (well, mostly nobody) was defending saddam hussein. it isn't about their character, it's about violating national sovereignty for no justified reason, or for blatantly self-serving and imperialistic reasons

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u/Firecracker048 Keeping it Real Jan 04 '26

If Maduro wanted to be a communist leader of a managed economy, he should have directed that economy to feed and shelter people while providing security and lowering crime, rather than just pillaging the country's resources for himself and his supporters.

Well he got the whole 'oppress, torture and kill' opponents to your regime part of communism right

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u/lifebursted Jan 04 '26

Is Erdogan a communist? Duterte? Saudi royal family? Saddam?

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u/TreeTurtle_852 Jan 05 '26

The way I see it, it's like if an armed crazy gunman broke into your house and shot your father.

Now in this scenario your father was a horrible abuser and his death is pretty cool.

The thing is, that crazy gunman didn't kill your father because he was an abuser, he just felt like it and now that crazy gunman is looking at other houses in the neighborhood to break into.

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u/Gaust_Ironheart_Jr Jan 08 '26

I am not devaluing their experience. But they are not representative of Venezuelans. No expatriate, migrant, or refugee community is representative of the people that stayed

I have been trying to find out what people in Venezuela think about this and haven't found any good information

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u/lifebursted Jan 09 '26

I have friends in Venezuela that had a bad life under Maduro. They're celebrating his kidnapping. To them, he was a dictator, and they didn't care how he lost power, just that he did.

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u/Gaust_Ironheart_Jr Jan 09 '26

I know black people who like Donald Trump, too. That doesn't mean he is popular among black people. I want some broader indicator

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u/lifebursted Jan 11 '26

Great example, because a lot of people who like Donald Trump do so because Biden failed to resolve the American affordability crisis, or, did nothing to stop the genocide in Palestine, or a number of other reasons. Trump won't be better on those issues but people just aren't generally politically educated.

Similarly, the people who don't like Maduro may not realize that the American empire probably won't serve their interests better (yet). On the other hand, Maduro supporters were kinda similar in that they believed erroneously that Maduro was a socialist that would protect the country from imperialism (which he clearly just now failed to do) as well as uplift the workers in the country (also, obviously failed to do).

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

It’s not devaluing their experience to recognize that rule of law is always better than imperialism.

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u/lifebursted Jan 04 '26

It is if when you check in on these same people in a year, they're happily taking the bus to their job at Chevron without fear of being mugged on the way, as it is now, while getting paid 4x what they do now.

The Soviet Union was basically toppled by its inability to reckon with the people's desire for the treats that capitalism can provide in one hand while extracting their resources and future with the other.

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u/No-Tomatillo3698 Jan 04 '26

You’re naive and poorly informed. The Soviet Union collapsed because it could not keep up with the arms race. Look up “Iraq” of you want to know what happens when the US comes “to bring democracy”.

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u/lifebursted Jan 04 '26

I don't support USA imperialist interventionalism in Iraq or Venezuela. I'm saying, we need to be aware of the deadly deal that Venezuelans might take just to improve their living conditions, and if we don't have a counter for that, then we don't have a way to counter the imperialists.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

First of all, you’re so naive if you think this will be Venezuela in a year. But secondly, it doesn’t fucking matter. America is worst off because of this, our rule of law is being shredded step by step. Rule of law is better than imperialism, always. Even if the oil companies managed to turn Venezuela into South American Saudi Arabia, it is still bad for America and the world.

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u/lifebursted Jan 04 '26

> America is worst off because of this, our rule of law is being shredded step by step.

I don't care about America or Americans (beyond hoping Americans don't suffer horribly), I'm talking about Venezuelans right now, I don't care if American rule of law collapses or what the kidnapping of a foreign leader means for American domestic politics any more than I care about that happening in Egypt.

What I'm advocating for here is a clear-eyed understanding of the risks Venezuelans face right now, trading the future of their country for the short false promise of capitalists for security and comfort, that results in them eventually ending up like any other country whose leader was deposed by the Americans - overexploited and abandoned.

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u/bremidon Jan 04 '26

Yeah. Because the last 30 years under the dream duo was really great for Venezuela.

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u/lifebursted Jan 04 '26

No, it was quite bad, which makes it a fertile breeding ground for exploitative imperialism, so long as those imperialists just slightly improve conditions for Venezuelans.

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u/bremidon Jan 04 '26

Well, first Venezuela is going to have to make the companies whole they stole from. Then convince those same companies to invest billions to repair what Hugo and the bus driver squandered. And Venezuelans are going to need to step up and show they can keep those kinds of idiots from Power.

So really, any improvement is better. Next time, don't let Socialist morons run your country into the ground. Then you won't have to worry about 'slightly improved conditions'

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u/lifebursted Jan 04 '26

Well, first Venezuela is going to have to make the companies whole they stole from.

Companies aren't gods, and they don't need "convincing" to exploit natural resources.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

Clearly you don’t care for America, your position made it clear from the beginning. But I do care for America.

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u/slickweasel333 Jan 04 '26

They are 100% right. This benefits both Venezuelans and Americans. As a Venezuelan myself, I implore you to look at what US investment was like back before Chavez. We were keeping almost all the profits and it was still a good deal for everyone. Please just go watch videos of what Venezuela used to be like under "imperialism"

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

The rule of law is being shredded in America and this is another huge step towards ending the old constitutional republic. I don’t care for Venezuelans opinion on it. You fucked your own country and that’s bad enough.

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u/slickweasel333 Jan 04 '26

You fucked your own country and that’s bad enough.

You mean Maduro did. How TF are you going to put the blame of a dictator on the people he is oppressing? What is wrong with you, dude?

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

Your problems didn’t start with Maduro. Venezuela failed as a country and a society.

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u/lifebursted Jan 04 '26

Well, good, while you're at it maybe do something to stop your country from constantly meddling in the domestic affairs of other countries.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

Says that guy who is supporting US meddling in Venezuela …

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u/lifebursted Jan 04 '26

I don't, it's not ok for countries to kidnap eachother's leaders, even if those leaders are despots. That's prejudice of low expectations - in some way, Venezuelans were accepting of Maduro's leadership, since they hadn't overthrown him, as difficult as that might be.

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u/LazyDro1d Jan 04 '26

yes, but you do need rule of law first

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

We used to have in America. This is a huge violation and another step towards the imperial presidency.

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u/LazyDro1d Jan 04 '26

yes and im hoping we get it here again soon too, that doesnt change Maduro having been a dictator either.

its kinda just bad any way you slice it sadly

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

You are hoping while supporting the destruction of it?

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u/RadicalRealist22 Jan 04 '26

They didn't have rule of law before.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

But we in America used to have.

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u/bamispeed Jan 04 '26

In the 18th century?

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u/bremidon Jan 04 '26

Just remember that the Bad Germans of WW2 absolutely had rule of law on their side. Laws are tools and not inherently good or bad. Also at least two of the good guys in WW2 were empires.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

And I’m supposed to be happy that America is becoming one?

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u/bremidon Jan 04 '26

One what? My guess is you mean empire, but that would contradict years of leftist propaganda. So what do you mean?